 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Who is going to buy it? |
 
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605   
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Very few people talking about microgeneration and battery storage. Battery storage is seeing some serious growth in efficiency and reduction in cost. A lot of potential to provide charging infrastructure without a grid connection. Easier to put a solar charging station in the middle of a desert than a diesel pump. For people like me with ample off road parking, shed space and garages being out of my way, would love to see it. Planning on building next house totally off grid. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews
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26th May 2021 7:59am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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To be honest I just put the cables in the ground, but what I can tell you is that the stuff going in now is much bigger than only a couple of years ago. Imagine a standard cul de sac with, say, 30 houses. Previously they might have had a 70mm copper main with 25mm single phase services to each house. Say that was built in 1965, those cables are likely still supplying those properties, and do not have the capacity to cope with the increased load from car chargers, electric heating etc. More load = more heat =more faults. In a nutshell the cables just aren't big enough. The local transformer isn't big enough. So far as I understand it is not permitted to fit an EV charger unless the service cable is minimum 35mm and 80A cut out fuse. Lots of services are only 25mm with 60A fuses. They have to be upgraded, I'm not sure who pays for it though. If it were being built now it would likely be a 300mm aluminium main (aluminium is less conductive than copper, but lighter and cheaper, so needs much bigger cables) with 35mm three phase services to each house. Assuming the transformer is upto it this would stand a much better chance of coping with demand. What national grid do is run the transmission side of the network - the huge metal pylons. When they say they have excess capacity and/or can cope with demand they are correct, but the next step down, the distribution grid, is the problem. I cant think of exact analogy but I'll try. Imagine a tanker truck with 10,000 litres of diesel in, and 100 cars come along to be refilled. Imagine which would be the most efficient supply, 50 thin pipes (so each car has to wait in turn and the process is slow), or 100 fat pipes with fast flow and capacity, direct to each car. National grid is the tanker, the pipes is the distribution network. Maybe that makes sense? Currently they only have 50 thin pipes... Others obviously know more than I do, I can only say how my job is impacted by car charging, it's a huge consideration and has led to rapid and significant changes. Obviously a lot is going on to try and make this work, that dynamic load thing sounds like a pretty clever idea. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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28th May 2021 3:53pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Ford F-150 may be 450 mile range!
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/05/2022-for...ll-charge/ Meanwhile, Rivian start deliveries in the US by July. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/05/rivian-w...p-in-july/ Now left. |
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28th May 2021 7:57pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498 
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I have the same dream 
Microgeneration and storage I think will be the next big step. Tesla has it's Power Wall and I have seen other companies are dabling. Most of the bigger ones are looking at storage on a large scale rather than domestic. Not sure if it is still a problem, but many mainstream insurance companies had issues covering battery storage within a building. So the idea of bolting one on your kitchen wall (if you have a strong wall!) was an issue. This may have been resolved but like many 'new' things insurance companies can see risk in anything they don't understand. Microgeneration - if connected to the grid - can cause major difficulties for the electrical supply companies. It can increase supply cable voltages and mess with the frequency. These are all things that they have to control by law (The Electricity Safety Quality and Continuity Regulations) and there are areas where they will not allow micro generation connections to the grid. The reason why I am holding back purchasing an EV is I think the next six or seven years will see big improvements to EV technology and range. This is because the car manufacturers have now got a firm date to work to and throughout history, technology has been driven by necessity and because of government legislation, it is now necessary. If the new Ford pick-up will do 400 plus miles on a charge, it seems that range is now going in the right direction. |
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28th May 2021 8:13pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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I can't stand it, now. I thought it would grow on me, but the '90' looks like a shoe (and that's a comment to me from someone who likes it!), and the '110' is just a Disco in new clothing. I still want an 'old' Defender (like a 90 Spectre) but it will have to wait until I win the Premium Bonds. I can't justify spending that on something I won't get to use much. We're heading back to an EV for our daily drive, but waiting to see what emerges in the next year. Now left. |
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28th May 2021 9:04pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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The latest on the pricing debate... from the horses mouth:
 Click image to enlarge |
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10th Jun 2021 7:22am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579
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£45k is a lot of money. My 110 brand new was 28k including vat. Same money as a low spec 90. Depreciation will be a massive factor. Also will it be taxed as a commercial or estate.
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10th Jun 2021 8:18am |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881  
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Yeah but your 28k 110 has issues from the get go in terms of build quality and design. If they can build a well made ‘defender’ for £45k with decent suspension and a rear locker I’d say it’s not bad.
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10th Jun 2021 9:44am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579
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Ok, send it to bowler for £20k and would be 48k in. This thing is 45k base model so there will be options like having it painted. With the current re sale on defenders feel your money would be safer in the short term.
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10th Jun 2021 12:08pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I struggle with the current economics of storage. I have a 4kW solar panel setup and my electricity bill is around £300 per annum. It's impossible to see any financial benefits to installing a battery setup. A Tesla power wall would take possibly 20 plus years to payback? It would be helpful with power cuts and essential if wanting to charge an EV at home, but otherwise... |
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11th Jun 2021 7:34am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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"£45k is a lot of money" - but it's significantly less than the £50k plus figures being thrown around; and entirely consistent with what Ineos has been saying all along. Your £28k, allowing for inflation would give you £32,058.61 in 2020. What would that get you in the current Defender range or indeed the current range from any manufacturer in the sector? Anyone seen any data on what compliance with the current legislative active/passive safety adds to a new vehicle cost? |
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11th Jun 2021 7:50am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209 
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Cars generally have risen in price quicker than inflation it seems. I think the expense of very strict emissions control, and the cost of warranty claims assiociated with the complex nature of modern cars are behind it. The popularity of PCP and lease deals has largely allowed the increase to go through without modt customers being priced out of the market. It a bit of an eye opener for those who want to buy outright or on traditional HP or loan though. The 2nd hand market are where it’s at for those people now, which includes me. A 3 year old Grenadier might be within my grasp. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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11th Jun 2021 8:26am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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I think that running costs and longevity need to be factored into the equation as well. Modern car design means that accident which was easily repairable on older car designed now results in a write-off (either due to the design crushability of the monocoque, or due to manufacturing processes that are impossible to reproduce in a bodyshop). Similar breakdowns which were easy to repair, usually by an owner, are now impossible to diagnose without specialist equipment and once diagnosed can only be repaired by replacing subassemblies or expensive units.
I think that we will also increasingly see that the third-owner-onwards phase of the life of cars is curtailed, this being the phase when traditionally an enthusiast who does his own maintenance is the owner, since the "own maintenance" becomes increasingly impossible. Traditionally the death-knell for a car was rust, there came a point when the structure deteriorated to the point of no return. I suspect with the increased polymer content in cars that in the future it will be the plastic components that become the fastest-rotting components, rust at last seems no longer to be an issue (except on Landrovers, perhaps). That, and the obsolescence of electronic components will, I feel, been the defining factors. Cars have become more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain, and have shorter lives. The technology of cars also has a shorter lifecycle due to the rate of technological change. It is perhaps unsurprising that people's approach to ownership is therefore changing, with leasing becoming a dominant method. I bought my Disco 2 new in 2002 and it cost me a coupled of hundred under £30k then for the spec I wanted. According to the majority of online sources, the purchasing power of £30k in 2002 would be equivalent to that of £50k today. When the new Defender came out, I specced up a new 110 to the nearest equivalent spec of my Disco, since functionally I consider them to be very equivalent vehicles, and the cost would have been a touch under £80k, so more than 50% more for a functionally equivalent vehicle. From what I have seen, the Grenadier is likely to provide functional equivalence at a significantly lower price than an £80k Defender, and will also not have many of the features of the Defender which I really wouldn't want but can't avoid with the configuration options from Landrover. I have no idea if I will ever consider buying a Grenadier but it is possible that I will consider it. It is extremely unlikely that I would ever seriously consider buying a new Defender. What I do welcome is the widening of choice for the buyer, and I applaud the philosophy of the Grenadier to provide a functionally competent vehicle with the minimum of complexity. That philosophy appeals greatly. |
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11th Jun 2021 9:44am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Functional equivalence? Only in the most very basic sense, it simply can’t have the breath of abilities that a new Defender has when it’s on the underpinnings of a 1960s army truck. There are good reasons new-fangled ideas like independent suspension and steering racks have become ubiquitous.
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11th Jun 2021 10:40am |
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