 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > 2020 Defender main discussion thread |
 
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1011   
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Disappointed because: The Fisher Price plastic acne that has been stuck on, then being marketed as heritage design cues. Disappointed because: The Amstrad Squarials that have been slapped on the sides, why? Disappointed because: An external lunchbox that is about as useful as tits on a bull – see point one Disappointed because: The boot in the 110 will not fit our 2 dogs (20+ stone of English mastiff) plus a ramp to help get dogs in, plus a passengers or 2 Disappointed because: Loaded to the hilt with software, historically LR frequently demonstrates its unable to write bug-free code. Disappointed because: On an extended test drive it felt numb and bland to drive, previous Disco’s would give it a good run for its money Disappointed because: There were more trim squeaks and rattles from a vehicle with less than 1000 miles on the clock, guess Uncle Jerry may call that Design Cues And not a single cheery picker was harmed in the making of this post Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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9th Mar 2021 5:03pm |
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| SN Member Since: 30 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
^^^^ correct - sadly at the time we didn't know about the weaknesses hidden in the TDV6 engine, without which, I would probably still have my 57 plate Disco 3 five years after I binned it (it is actually still on the road according to the govt tax/mot checker with another 80,000 miles on it since) Steve N | 21MY Defender  | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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9th Mar 2021 5:05pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2743
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So a few styling features you’re not sold on, a boot that could be bigger and the usual question marks over Land Rover reliability. Hardly warrants the constant barrage of moaning on here... Driving experience and squeaks and rattles... have you driven an old defender?!  Cheers, David
Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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9th Mar 2021 5:09pm |
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| SN Member Since: 30 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
So I'm going to have to respond to this whingefest...
What the f*ck - so it doesn't 'look like' your 60 years old design. Shame. Get over it. Oh and by the way the same 'design cue' approach was applied to get from Series 1 to the last Defenders via the Series 2 and Series 3 - or does that not count?
See above - I know the reason behind them but not prepared to say why - oh and Amstrad never had a square logo or a squarial - that was British Satellite Broadcasting, bought by Sky some years ago. (Petty I know, but hey, it's where this thread is at)
Don't buy it. Its not mandatory FFS. But its only a variation of other mechanisms used for holding kit outside the body of the vehicle - I assume you 60 year old design does this?
Don't have dogs the size of shetland ponies! - a stupid thing to do in my view (which I agree is a stupid comment but no worse than your stupid comment at this point)
You CANNOT buy a car without this now, its been illegal in the EU since 1997 ISTR
Sorry did you want uncomfortable, rough and edgy then? And quite rightly previous disco's would because the Disco 3/4 could actually match your relic with needing a hard core offroad driver to be behind the wheel - are you worried you'd lose some exclusivity?
Probably an early build. But either way. surely that should have made you happy as it is the same as your beloved relic vehicle And that'll do for now. Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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9th Mar 2021 5:29pm |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1011
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Thanks for your answers Steve, but I'm still disappointed, off to feed my Shetland ponies Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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9th Mar 2021 5:55pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17207 
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Disappointed because: I can't convert it from a pick-up to a canopy and v.v. in 5 minutes like I can the old one. I can't put bleeding deadstock in the back and hose it out afterwards. I probably can't even hose out the footwells without causing a lifetime of electrical faults. I can't push a broken down tractor or similar with it. I can't unbolt damaged panels and replace them easily if necessary. I can't fit a front coupling to it, nor for that matter a NATO pintle to either end. I can't fit a hydraulic power take off to the transfer box. I can't take the roof off in the summer if I want to. I can't get a version that doesn't have £50k+ of electronics and useless features that I really don't want and don't have any use for. Not to mention that a broken headlight costs £1000, the vehicle looks hideous to me, and I bet my very expensive Pewag tyre chains won't fit. It is also very unlikely that I can fix almost all electrical or mechanical problems with fairly rudimentary tools and diagnosytic equipment like I can (and frequently have to) with the old Defender, which ties me in to outrageous servicing costs. And no, I can't fit a bloody cherry picker, underlift, or device for spraying locusts to the the back if I want to, all of which I can with the old one. It now offers me nothing now that any other bland and non-descript "soft-roader" doesn't offer, many at a "better value" price, but maybe, just maybe, if I wanted a replacement for my Discovery then I'd consider buying one. However if I want to replace my Defender, you can be absolutely sure that I won't be buying a new Defender because it simply isn't a replacement for MY Defender and won't do the things I do with MY Defender. My choice, and I can be disappointed if I want that something that was a great and quintessentially British icon, however flawed and anachronistic it was, is no more. I totally get that you think the new Defender is the best thing ever, and it is patently clear that you think those of us who actually consider the new Defender both disappointing and ultimately rather pointless to be luddite morons, which again you are perfectly entitled to do. What I do find objectionable though is the way that you need to insult those who don't agree with your view in virtually every post you make. You could perhaps try, just once, to see if you can be civilised and criticise the vehicle without generally offensive comments about "overlanding trips to Tesco" and "pretend macho men" and so on. You might find it works. There again you may be a troll and doing it intentionally to be irritating. |
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9th Mar 2021 6:20pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283 
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I am disappointed because it has brought the Land Rover community to almost swearing at each other, and wanting a keyboard fight.
What a shame.... I may be wrong, but I certainly get the impression that a lot of new "Defender" owners traded in a Land Rover product that wasn't a classic Defender, but one of Gerry's newer creations. I don't think either of the above signal long-term success for the marque. (Oh, and I loved the Disco 3 right from the start. My son is even now preserving his (ex-mother's) well cared for example in a de-humidified barn. Who knows what the next "classic" LR will be?  ) |
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9th Mar 2021 6:46pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Why do you persist in mis-representing the actual figures?
Old defender sales figures: 2011 - 18,438 2012 - 19,736 2013 - 16,199 2014 - 17,137 2015 - 19,019 2016 - 22,504[/quote] From this earlier thread: https://www.defender2.net/forum/post880981...les#880981
It's rather ironic that the new Defender is the last model to come to market under the 1 million vehicles strategy. By design it needed to have wide appeal and so compromise; I wonder how differently the vehicle would have turned out under the new more selective strategy where the vehicle can be targeted at a more defined niche market. |
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9th Mar 2021 6:55pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Hand on heart, do you think the lunchbox is actually a good interpretation/variation of the others? Compared to a Givi mono box or virtually any other motorcycle touring pannier setup, is looks very cheap and nasty.
Wade sensors, near field sensor modules, auto decoupling clutches for transfer boxes, keyless entry, false theft alarms, variable flow cooling pumps, and many more are not legal requirements.
JLR are still writing SSMs where the solutions include double sided tape and felt pads...so unfortunately it's not isolated to early builds. |
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9th Mar 2021 7:55pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I presume you’d only put bleeding deadstock in the back of a pickup, so as above (the knacker man is my preferred option for that, though). You can’t realistically hose out the footwells of any modern car (and certainly none of the pickup rivals), but I think you’d have a better chance in a new Defender than anything else. You can’t push a broken down tractor with any UK-spec modern car without damaging it, pedestrian safety rules put paid to that (but quite why you’d want to, I’m not sure - my choice would be with another tractor). You can’t unbolt and replace panels on any modern vehicle. If demand for a front coupling is there, someone will make one - as they did for the D3 etc. Aftermarket tow bar options will surely expand, too (but NATO hitches are pretty niche). There’s not necessarily a reason why you couldn’t fit a hydraulic PTO (although I appreciate demand for an aftermarket kit is unlikely to exist). You can’t take the roof off anything modern apart from US toys like a Wrangler or a new Bronco. £50k of electronics sounds a bit extreme, but the Defender doesn’t really have more or less of that than any other car that meets modern standards and requirements. A headlight will cost what a modern headlight costs (I’ve never, ever broken a headlight, with or without guards), looks are subjective and it’s fairly unlikely that your very expensive Pewag chains will fit an application that they weren’t designed for. You cannot fix any modern car, of any kind, with rudimentary tools. I’m sorry about your locust problem. You’ve basically painted yourself into an old Defender-shaped corner. No modern vehicle could ever fulfil such narrow and specific criteria. The world moves on. |
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9th Mar 2021 8:22pm |
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| Nitroneil Member Since: 05 Mar 2019 Location: Stirling Posts: 132 
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Is there any way this post can be renamed? Incredibly depressing discussions going on here no matter where you stand. Surely there is more to dicuss in the l663 defender main discussion thread than whether folk think its
 or not. 90S D250 fuji and loving it. |
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9th Mar 2021 8:33pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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That’s a corollary of the fact that the newest old Defender is getting on for five years old, and for the last twenty-plus years of its life it wasn’t a realistic option for most people. The last ones we had were in the mid-90s - the alternatives were (unfortunately) just much better at the job, as was every iteration of Discovery (in commercial format), as will be the Defender Hard Top. |
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9th Mar 2021 8:48pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17207
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Well done, you have just managed two whole posts without being overtly insulting. You see you can do it if you try.  |
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9th Mar 2021 9:03pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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I thought that I might have bought one by now but I’m appalled by some of the serious defects and the feeling that it just isn’t a premium or durable product. I know that I would live to regret it. Sorry about that.
Our 90 is five years old now and has clicked over 40k miles. By any measure it’s rubbish but irreplaceable. |
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9th Mar 2021 9:18pm |
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