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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605   
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And I think anyone expecting the Grenadier to come in closer in price to an old Defender than a new Defender is being a tad optimistic. I love my Defender and I'll never sell it but my husband has point blank refused another Scottish road trip in it so looks like a 90HT is likely within the year. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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8th Mar 2021 6:07pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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"And I think anyone expecting the Grenadier to come in closer in price to an old Defender than a new Defender is being a tad optimistic."
Ineos have been relatively clear on pricing, we've covered it many times in several threads ~ so the figures are there, so why fly this old kite again? |
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8th Mar 2021 6:22pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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There's an award I didn't know existed...
 Click image to enlarge Land Rover (@LandRover) Tweeted: Going Above and Beyond on International Women's Day today, the New #DEFENDER has been awarded the 'Supreme Car of the Year' award in the global Women's World Car of the Year awards 2020 @wwcoty. #WWCOTY #IWD2021 https://t.co/kROp6MbZiT https://twitter.com/LandRover/status/1368996266441596933?s=20 |
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8th Mar 2021 6:23pm |
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605
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I haven't spent much time on the Grenadier subform as it doesn't interest me but I've seen starting prices from £30k, £40k and £50k from various media outlets. I'd have been happy to have not mentioned it and I wasn't the one who started rehashing the "Grenadier is more of a Defender than the new Defender" argument in this thread so......  https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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8th Mar 2021 8:11pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818  
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I'm not sure I agree Philip. The new Defender does two things better than the old Defender, and as you say as a far more modern car with millions thrown at development, it should. Those two things are off-roading as per the video above and driving on a road in SUV levels of comfort. But that's not all the Defender did, that's not all the Defender offered, and the old Defender didn't just target SUV drivers or those willing to spend a day off roading in Moab in their 70k car. But in creating this vehicle it no longer does affordability, usability, adaptability, modifiability, customability (I'm starting to invent some words here) repairability, platformability as well as, let alone better than its predecessors. And it's all those attributes tied to its capability off road, that made the Defender name. It wasn't purely that it excelled off road, many cars superseded its ability some years ago, but that it offered so much more to so many people in such a wide variety of roles and in so many parts of the world. Overlanders, military, utility companies, NGOs, farmers, private users, police and fire service, pizza oven etc. And that variety has been reduced directly as a result of the architecture used in its design. All of that could have been used for a super capable new Disco, much like the clear abilities and improved comfort, but reduced variety, of the original Discos, and then a still capable (no reason they couldn't transfer the 4x4 Tech) but more simple and adaptable vehicle could have been launched called the Defender. The new Defender is excellent, but it is a Disco in all but name. My argument is that whilst the Grenadier will be a little less comfortable on road, and a little less capable off road, in all other aspects it is a more logical successor to the Defender. It would be the one chosen by hard core over landers, the military, potentially NGOs, the emergency services, Mountain Rescue. All the areas in which the original Defender excelled and in which the new Defender (or laterally a Disco) may have had no place. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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9th Mar 2021 7:56am |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2755
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I’m sure we’ll be having these debates well into the future but in my opinion the defender should have always kept pace with e.g. the Land Cruiser Prado, maybe even 100/200 series, cheaper G-Wagens, Nissan Patrol etc. And I think that had Land Rover not spent 25 years not changing the design at all, then getting to where we are now wouldn’t have come as such a shock.
Remember that no matter how much we love the old car (and they will always be available to rebuild, modify, use as toys etc) the sad truth is that LR could only sell 10-15,000 of them in a good year. Yes they could be trying to sell a car that competes with the Japanese pick-ups and such but I don’t think Land Rover could compete on price. The new defender is exactly where Land Rover should be going in my opinion; super capable and desirable, opening up a whole new class of customers. The influx of new owners on here looking to modify, adventure and experiment gives me a lot of hope that the what the old defender (and most capable 4x4s if we’re honest) was all about will live on. Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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9th Mar 2021 10:46am |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1018 
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@Grenadier I think you are nailing it, the new defender has moved into a different market segment, leaping from team oily rag to the moisturizer brigade
The original Wilkes Brothers concept that put LR on the world map as a company, has taken a 90 degree right turn in its DNA. This new vehicle has leapt into a whole new market, taking the defender name with it, which leaves quite a few folk with a disappointed aftertaste. The new defender has a much closer DNA to the Discovery/Range Rover, so much so that it is atrophying customers from within LR’s own stable, some might say a suicidal strategy. Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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9th Mar 2021 11:54am |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2755
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Something like a 90 hard top on coil springs is not really that far from the original concept given 70 odd years have passed...
Look at the 911, the new car is what it is because it’s the most capable and developed version of the original brief. No use just living in the past making air-cooled 993s. That can be left down to the aftermarket and enthusiasts. Plus “moisturiser brigade” as you call them are the ones actually buying cars... Land Rover I suspect don’t really care whether a farmer with a 20 year old defender has a “bad taste”... Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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9th Mar 2021 12:02pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I understand that it’s nice to see different configurations, but even for the big players, the chassis cab market must be minuscule, and as discussed to death, the idea that a company like JLR could compete in the global cheap pickup market is just silly. Even VW (VW!) have decided not to go it alone.
The Grenadier is very much not the vehicle which will take over from where Land Rover was in the 1950s and 1960s. |
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9th Mar 2021 12:17pm |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1018
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[quote="Cheshire110"]Something like a 90 hard top on coil springs is not really that far from the original concept given 70 odd years have passed...
This could be said for 95% of vehicles on the road, however there are plenty of people here that are not against the new defender, but disappointed by it. Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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9th Mar 2021 12:27pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Disappointed why? Because they can’t put a cherry picker on the back to use on their overlanding trips to Tesco?
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9th Mar 2021 12:32pm |
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| SN Member Since: 29 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
The rumoured pickup (Honda Ridgeline style) will provide an answer (for sane people)
No amount of fettling will solve the "I want it cheap and modifyable with a hammer" gang though  Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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9th Mar 2021 12:34pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2755
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[quote="Muddybigdog"]
Well yes but how many of them bought new (classic) defenders regularly anyway? Land River had to make a car which would bring customers in to the brand, appeal in more markets, etc. We all love the old defender but by the end it was a curiosity rather than a major driver of sales. Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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9th Mar 2021 3:10pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2755
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I clearly remember how much people hated / moaned about the Disco 3 when it came out, and that went on to not only become one of the most popular and long-lasting vehicles around, but also save Land Rover as a company... Cheers, David
Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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9th Mar 2021 3:14pm |
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