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Home > General & Technical (L663) > Today is 6 months since I took delivery

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Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753

Today is 6 months since I took delivery Trials and tribulations in the first six months and 5000 miles A) What’s gone wrong/ failed/ fallen off - The car was delivered with one noticeable fault on 12th June - a distorted window scraper rubber on the offside rear passenger door. IMHO unforgivable as the car is supposed to have had minimum 2 QC checks before delivery and it was very noticeable. The scraper was replaced under warranty. After a dry spell after delivery it was annoying to find that I had rain water leaking into the car. Originally it was suspected to be entering via the distorted window seal but after several attempts to cure it the dealer found that the section of “Signature Square” on the door was not properly sealed. Since fitting a replacement seal it hasn’t leaked. This took 3 visits to the workshop and no car or loaner available for 3 days on the final visit. Fortunately I have a bus pass and plenty of time on my hands and no one is travelling by bus! About 3 weeks into ownership I did my first run at motorway speeds and found that there was a very annoying tapping coming from the right side of the windscreen - defect was known by LR and a redesigned A Pillar trim ordered but was on factory back-order. Took 5 weeks to arrive at the dealers. Around the same time as the windscreen tapping started a rattle in the B pillar / drivers door area started - turned out to be two sources - one was the shaped rubber window trim that hides the right angle join of the door frame and makes it look radiused. The 2nd source was internally inside the B pillar and was fixed by the dealer while the car was having investigations into the rainwater leak. The rubber tapping on the door frame was fixed by myself after seeing Mark Anderson’s YouTube video. While carrying out this fix I found that this was a problem known about by LR as I found 2 doors with double sided tape on the door/rubber surface that had dried out........ Otherwise nothing has fallen off or broken so far, no more vibrations or rattles have appeared The over the air update system seems to be a bit glitchy, but I’m sure that that will get better with practise! B) Disappointments Basically only one - that QC on a £61000 car that was imported during lock down and stored somewhere had not had known issues sorted by LR before delivery to the dealership. The items above I put down to teething problems getting a completely new vehicle to market and starting up a new production line - my car is also a very early production vehicle. Seat fabric - the fabric is very nice and the half leather/ cloth mixture is great and suits the vehicle BUT even after drying it carefully to remove the watermarking from rain drops when the doors or a window is open in wet weather I have unacceptable marking returning on the driver’s seat and offside rear passenger outer seat fabric - it hasn’t appeared on the near side seats as I rarely open those doors/ windows as I’m alone in the car most of the time. It looks unsightly and isn’t becoming in a £20000 car let alone a £60000 one and needs a rethink by JLR. Having said that the pale Acorn interior I have has been very easy to clean when it has had mud or my 7 year old great nephew’s chocolate crumbs worked into it! He also has a habit of kicking seat backs with his wellies or trainers on and the front seat back hasn’t marked at all. BTW Black and Khaki seats suffer the same water marking. The poor reception from some owners of the previous Defender is quite shocking - my car was spat on while stopped at traffic lights by a young guy driving an old 110 HT. Fortunately most owners of the older Defender are quite happy when they look inside and the couple of detractors who have asked to ride in it on off-road trails have been very impressed with the ease that it has handled some really quite challenging tracks - their biggest worry was that they felt that they would loose control by using the TR programs but when I showed them that you don’t have to use the TR at all and can drive it just like their older cars if they want to they seem to be a bit more confident that it doesn’t have to be driven by the computing power built into it. Thoughts that the 2.0lt diesel might be too small though have been impressively dispelled, peak toque coming in from1400 rpm helps although a little bit more would be useful, but then you can never have too much torque! C) Tribulations My previous Defender experience has been almost 20 years owning a 1996 TDI300 90 and this car is the polar opposite to it. The two cars are not really comparable - one is a post war design slightly modified over the years , the new one is at the forefront of 21st century design and is in full compliance with environmental and safety rules. The new car is a brilliant modern vehicle. Having said that, the new car does do everything and more than the old one. For a start (cured leaks aside) it is warm dry and very comfortable inside. After everything I had read about Ingenium engines I wasn’t expecting great refinement but Defender is very much a smooth, quiet cruiser on the road and more than powerful enough in D240 guise to handle everything I need the car to do offroad. It’s great to be able to get up to high speeds relatively quickly and quietly with no worry that the brakes might not be up to the job of slowing it down without locking up. Fuel consumption has been better than I expected - it is the first Land Rover since my 2007 TDv8 RRS that can get within 1mpg of the official numbers published and often better. The remote start is brilliant on cold days but does take a toll on fuel consumption (a small price to pay to get into a toasty warm car despite having heated seats and a heated steering wheel) Oil consumption - I haven’t needed to top it up in 5000 miles. The level has dropped from just over the max mark on the dipstick to a tiny bit below it. One complaint I have on this front is that, while I welcome the return to a proper dipstick, what is fitted as a dipstick is almost 1m long and very very bendy and it’s quite hard to get it back into the tube after removing it to read because it only seems to go in one way, any other way it bends alarmingly and there is the fear it will snap after a couple of years use........ So far there are no oil marks on the drive under it too. DEF consumption. DEF is something new to me and I had heard that Ingenium engines had rather a thirst for it. This hadn’t proved to be so in my car. Yesterday I had 3500 miles remaining range in the DEF tank after racking up 5000 miles but I know some other D240 owners who have heavier consumption. I don’t use my car for commuting, it mostly gets used for the 30 miles round trip to the nearest supermarket on fast A roads at operating temperature. I know that the car has done at least 2 DPF regents as the smell is noticeable on getting out of the car or driving with a window down. For the life of me I cannot understand why manufacturers cannot put a warning light/ gong that a regen is in progress on the dash, let’s face it there’s a load of much less important warning lights there already. The interest in the car from people who have working Land Rovers (not just old/ Classic Defenders) has mostly been positive, I don’t recall anyone commenting that it is too luxurious but there are a lot of comments about how big and how expensive it is. I bought this car with the intention of being able to reduce from owning 2 cars, one of which only does 1100 miles a year in a heavy use year but was originally bought in 2001 as a “sump guard” for the Freelander1 TD4 Auto I had at the time and was taking places it was never really to intended to go. The TDi300 had 56000 miles on it and was 6 years old when I bought it as an approved used LR. It cost me £10000 then - as a 2nd car it has given me so much fun and experiences I would never have got any other way. It has been totally reliable, the things that have failed have done so because of my bad driving or wear and tear (apart from the chassis succumbing to corrosion and being replaced by a galvanised one in 2010) The only breakdown it has suffered was the original battery died a couple of years ago after sitting on the drive on a particularly cold night - not bad for the OEM battery supplied in 1996. I managed to melt the internals of the transfer case after driving heavily into a stone lined field drainage ditch hiding in long grass, all the oil slowly dripped out of a tiny hole in the case and the car went 100 miles before dying on the forecourt of the indie who was going to look into why it appeared to be suffering a loss of power.......... today it’s stored in a well ventilated agricultural shed on a battery tickle charger for the winter. It now has 93000 miles on the odo and gets an annual full service regardless (it’s pampered at a full service every 1000 miles/12 months). I doubt I’ll still have the new one when it gets to 25 years old / 100000, it might have to go in 4-5 years time to make way for an EV hatchback, but the 90 will still be there for off-roading in total discomfort, condensation dripping down the back of my neck from the pop up sunroof (it has never leaked!) on frosty mornings. Modifications I bought the car from dealer stock so wasn’t able to get the full spec I wanted. In that dealer’s network they had only one vehicle with the optional rear e-diff, but also it had no security system which is now an optional extra...... so I took a First Edition car with the Security Pro system and no e-diff. Prior to delivery I asked the dealer to supply and fit three extras - Classic mud flaps, front protection plate and a spare wheel cover (still unused in my garage!). I have subsequently had roof rails and cross bars and recovery eyes fitted by the local LR dealership (not the supplying dealer). Then aftermarket I have had ceramic paint protection coating and paint protection film applied by the local franchised x-pel detailers and changed the OEM All Season tyres for a set of Good Year Duratracs (which are smooth and quiet on road and so far haven’t failed me offroad either, and the car looks better IMHO on them). I was planning on having the accessory winch fitted but in the harsh light of day I hardly ever need to use the MileMarker on my 90 these days and a “fitted” cost of >£5000 is hard for me to justify for the electric Warn winch offered by LR when it will get so little use. Otherwise there’s nothing else I feel that the car needs for the way I use it, if I going on a weekend run that I think I might need the winch for I’ll go in the 90 instead - £5000 pays for a lot of diesel and a lot monthly washes by the local detailers! Verdict I’m delighted with the car now it’s running as LR intended it to..... Yes it’s big, yes it’s expensive, yes it’s a bit boring to drive. No, it’s nothing like the old version or any other LR product. It’s too wide to go on some of the wooded runs I do with the TDi300 90 without risking severe damage to the sides/ wheels but otherwise it’s a really good off-road vehicle and well able to live up the Land Rover marque. The elephant in the room - I don’t give a toss that “it isn’t a real Defender” because it is so much more than what it replaces. The old Defender could easily also have been called Freelander or Discovery when it came to market and nobody would have said anything. OK so you cannot get a Euro pallet through tailgate, but there weren’t many of the old version that were used like that anyway even if you could squeeze one in through the back door and between the wheel boxes. It’s still rare enough that it’s dead easy to find it in a crowded car park because it is a lot higher than most other 4x4’s and cars (although it does get overshadowed by high rise Transit vans!). It’s not for everybody and I accept that there are owners who will never experience anywhere near the limits of the vehicle but that is the same with many 4x4’s that are purchased purely as shopping/ commuting/ school run cars, but those owners really don’t know what a capable car they have bought in the New Defender. When I look on another forum it’s great to see just how many New Defenders are being sold overseas in markets where the previous version either wasn’t sold or was justifiably written off as being too unreliable. A huge number of those cars haven’t had a single problem or defect and many are being used for the purpose the car was designed for without issue and in a market where the car competes with some fearsomely able and cheaper competitors. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 13th Dec 2020 1:06pm. Edited 2 times in total

12th Dec 2020 12:49pm

J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3384	Good write up DEF consumption all depends on the owner, no two will consume the same.
12th Dec 2020 1:04pm

Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1092	Great write up Tim. Looking forward to joining the party soon. 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged.
12th Dec 2020 1:35pm

discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2526	Excellent write up Tim. Makes my blood boil to think that someone spat at your vehicle and to think it was a 110 driver makes it even worse. Total lack of respect. Defender 90XS SW Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8
12th Dec 2020 1:56pm

Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753

Gareth I think might have met up years ago on a weekend run at Weardale Offoad Centre by Mark Hatton, I travelled down in the 90 that ended up totally covered in mud after doing the Somme trench at Weardale - I certainly got a lots of stares diving home! Something I forgot to mention - you want to do a long drive and this is one of the finest cars to do it in, it’s up there with a Range Rover for a comfortable and tranquil cabin on a long trip. No need to have to have forced stops every hour or so to protect your hearing or return the circulation to your right arm. Oh and a fold up arm rest like Range Rovers and D5 have would be one of the few really nice additions to the spec........ Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

12th Dec 2020 1:57pm

Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1092	Yes I remember it well Tim, in fact I have an album on Disco3.co.uk of the weekend. https://www.disco4.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1170 I was in my LWB 2a (Betsy) with my son and his mate. It was a bit cold! 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged.
12th Dec 2020 4:18pm

DSL Member Since: 20 Aug 2007 Location: Wandering the wasteland. Posts: 837	Re the moron that spat at you, there are some weird and twisted people out there.
12th Dec 2020 5:11pm

90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2131	What kind of fecktard is out there....... Nice to see you enjoy YOUR car regardless of others peoples views
12th Dec 2020 6:31pm

Tom_T Member Since: 08 Nov 2020 Location: Essex Posts: 87

Great write up. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the fact that the new defender, whilst carrying over the name, could never really be a like for like replacement because one was designed post war and one was designed in the 21st century with all the modern rules and regulations we have to live with now. I’m really looking forward to taking delivery of mine and using it as an all round everyday car which will suit my lifestyle. Buying an early production run of a brand new model will always have teething problems and it’s nice to see you having a pragmatic approach to this. I’ll be interested to see if anything changes after 10,000 miles and above!

12th Dec 2020 6:40pm

J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3384	I don’t mind problems, every car has them, I don’t care what the German fan boys say. It’s how they’re dealt with that matters.
12th Dec 2020 9:51pm

Fat Cog Member Since: 19 Mar 2012 Location: Oxfordshire & Devon Posts: 502

Very interesting & honest review...far better than the average YouTube rubbish...thanks Tim. I've said this before on the forum, the new Defender, at the moment at least, isn't for me (although I'm looking forward to seeing a Commercial 90 in the flesh) BUT to echo Tim's comments about the two being incomparable, I had a timely reminder about post-war carry over design when I had to implement an emergency stop at 60mph when an Ocado van pulled straight out in front of me on the rather undulating A436 near Stow on the Wold...well, shall we say it was a thrilling experience for a variety of reasons! My last of the line 2016 XS 90 is scarily now coming up for 5 years old so at some point I may well need to think about relegating it to first reserve with my Wolf being relegated to second reserve & to be honest their are few options available to someone like me (& many others on this forum) who have had a lifetime driving, owning & loving Defenders (& I include series vehicles in this), apart from the G-Wagon (which I've always liked but can't afford) I see the new Defender being a natural transition & I think the new 90 will win lots of fans, it just might take time, but it'll get there I'm sure. I just wish that Land Rover would produce the Commercial variant without a touchscreen in sight... Since 1973...S1, Air Portable's, Defender's, but only my Wolf TUL HS GS remains

13th Dec 2020 9:47am

Fellrunner Member Since: 28 Sep 2014 Location: Wandering Posts: 257

A detailed and very interesting read. As others have said, the idiot who spat on your car!? Utter madness. Teething issues aside (I'll come back to this later) they seem to be a very capable vehicle indeed. What I just don't understand is why they are required in LR's lineup; given that the Defender is now a direct competitor to just about every other model in its range; they are broadly all extremely capable off road but so plush that essentially very few people are going to use them as I think many use the old Defender. The answer, at least in part, has to be to trade off the Defender name and of course that's completely understandable as it's a company that seeks to make a profit. But, and here's the rub for me with this new and very capable replacement. Firstly, it has a very different image to the old Defender; I've seen many more blinged up fully tinted versions than not - Top Gear using a gold wrapped version as car of the year said it all to me. Secondly, and as someone who will be changing cars next year, why buy a new Defender when, for admittedly a little more, I can get in to a RR. It's a nicer place to be, and frankly I'm not going to use a new Defender (given how lovely they are) for anything I wouldn't use a RR for. And that brings me to the teething issues, I don't think it's good enough (I recognise that most new cars will have some issues). But it just doesn't surprise when it comes to LR (just like their atrocious after sales service doesn't surprise). So, for me at least next year, it's going to be an end of the line L405 and keeping my old Defender which gets well and truly used.

13th Dec 2020 11:07am

DSL Member Since: 20 Aug 2007 Location: Wandering the wasteland. Posts: 837	Would be interesting to see what reception the L663 would have gotten from old Defender peeps if it was called, say, the LR Endurance. Or the LR Discovered.
13th Dec 2020 11:40am

Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3743

Good report and I enjoy your updates, The idiot that spat at it..... why? Good to hear its now running as it should without trips to the dealers... I like the look of them and there are a few out there that are growing on me with the correct spec / wheels etc. For me given I have the 110, I didn't see it replacing that, its a different type of car. So kept the 110 and bought a Full Fat RR. So now depending on our journey needs. 1) Very basic in the Series 3 (great for green lanes and shows) 2) Slightly less basic in the 110 (Our Lakes / Scotland / Camping / lugging stuff truck) 3) Luxury in the RR Interestingly the RR so far is averaging 36 mpg and the other day I had 39 mpg out of it. Amazing for the size of car. I've not had cars with those figures for many years Keep your reports and modifications going I enjoy reading them (and thanks for your recommendations on the NC500) Merry Christmas

13th Dec 2020 11:43am

GSKM Member Since: 22 Aug 2020 Location: Shropshire Posts: 5

Nice review, thank you Tim. It just reinforces that I want the new Defender as my next car. I can’t believe that anybody is so stupid to spit at your car. I know some people don’t like it as a Defender replacement because you can’t cut it to pieces and add a cherry picker to the back but why spit. Myself, I didn’t buy an old Defender as it would be used as a family car and it’s not suited to my daily commute, but the new one does everything I want. Incidentally, I bought your old Evoque wheels off you. They are now sat quite happily on my DS. Gav. 1983 110 2286 petrol hardtop. 2015my Freelander 2018my Discovery Sport.

19th Dec 2020 6:27pm

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