 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > A St P White justifies his last video..... |
 
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| Ecco Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 280   
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..which point exactly he is missing?? He simply expected Defender to be an upgraded version, better version of what it was for over 50-60 years, just to discover that its yet another luxury SUV, which was not a one single generation of series/defenders since their inception..so, how can one then miss the point by expecting vehicle to be what it was since its day one, is beyond me..
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8th Dec 2020 10:45am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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But we all knew in 2011 with DC100 that whatever Defender was going to become it wasn’t going to be a redesign of the old one, it was going to be be something totally different and definitely not utilitarian. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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8th Dec 2020 10:51am |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7904  
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Like him or loathe him, I do find his videos fascinating. I can't help feeling the "market" that he is in (total wilderness) is comparatively small and not economical to make it worth it?
Has he made comment on the Grenadier yet? James MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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8th Dec 2020 11:06am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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He’s mentioned it but I don’t think he made any comment about it - maybe trying not to spoil his chances of being invited on Grenadier’s version of the “Namibia” experience for journos. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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8th Dec 2020 11:14am |
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| W84IT Member Since: 28 Sep 2020 Location: Indio, California Posts: 111 
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I love my new Defender for what it is. I'm not into the hard core off-road thing but I'm glad that the new Defender is very capable if I ever needed it to go off road. I do feel that the manufacturer/Land Rover should have given people the option to have the coil springs and very little electronics on the 110 platform. The new Defender seems very solid so I think a stripped down version would please the old school Defender guys. Maybe Land Rover will consider this after all the hype goes away. Now I don't think that a stripped down version will sell as much as the more optioned versions with all the smart technology because most buyers like myself are looking for a good daily driver that has all the comforts that you would expect from a modern luxury SUV. However, a stripped down version will be much better for the off road enthusiast. Ray
2020.5 Defender 110 P400HSE 2016.5 Range Rover HSE |
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8th Dec 2020 11:38am |
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| Simon Audi Member Since: 19 Nov 2020 Location: Newport Posts: 544
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I think he misses the fact on the Winch that to comply Globally with legal requirements - it has to be behind the bumper...for Pedestrian Crash Protection?
Also ARB may not have any accessories on the market - but is that LR's fault? Did they stop ARB doing it? Did they cause Covid? LR also cleverly - launched the Accessories as part of the vehicle - which also means catch up and less sales for AM suppliers... so good for LR bad for the AM.... He has a point that it is not Utility - rough and ready - but neither are many modern cars - due to Global legislation.... Sure they could easily do a base version - plastic seats - coil springs - but the Electronics for the TR, ABS and Engine still need to be there... how many of those would they sell compared to the Luxury Model? Maybe they should do one... but unless they see sales forecasts.. I doubt they would spend the Millions on the Base Model Development. Their Hard Top may be this model? or could be adapted? I guess they can sit back and see how Grenadire Sales go? They seem to be making the Vehicle he wants.. |
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8th Dec 2020 12:08pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10379
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I find him pompous.
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8th Dec 2020 1:11pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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I very much doubt that 99.9999% of the target audience want to spend a weekend on the trails either. They are buying a vehicle that may be capable of it, but they have no knowledge or desire to do such off roading. |
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8th Dec 2020 2:21pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Oh contraire: |
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8th Dec 2020 2:29pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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The 2011 press pack certainly talked up the utilitarian nature of the DC100:  Click image to enlarge |
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8th Dec 2020 2:46pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 809 
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I pretty much agree with what ASPW is saying, apart from the 3rd party accessory bit which I think just needs more time.
And presumably you can still put any tent on top, it doesn't have to be the LR supplied one? But just because LR have thrown all the electronic toys and luxuries (and price tag to match) at this model, doesn't mean they can't do a more basic version later. First editions always seem to be the most luxurious. Obviously it will still have quite a lot of electronics, as any modern car does - but if they wanted to, they could do an 'explorer's' coil sprung basic 110. Whether they want to or not is another thing. |
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8th Dec 2020 3:00pm |
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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 659 
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The main reason most people have an issue with it is because LR has turned the Defender into just another premium SUV not a 4x4 as hoped by the vast majority of Defender owners. Unfortunately for LR, many other companies have proven that you can still meet modern legislation with a capable 4x4, so that’s no excuse. They created a premium SUV because they wanted to, not because they had to, or it’s progress.
Thousands of folks will be very happy with their new Defender, thousands will buy a Defender for the first time, a Defender will lap the Nurburgring in sub 8 minutes and What Caravan weekly (if that exists 😉) will vote it best tow SUV of the year. None of that changes the fact that LR hasn’t had a proper 4x4 in it’s line up for 5 years now and shows no sign of changing. |
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8th Dec 2020 7:04pm |
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| Simon Audi Member Since: 19 Nov 2020 Location: Newport Posts: 544
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How many base models - stripped down vehicles do you think they would sell..?
My guess is LR thought not many and they could sell more if it was more every day. Most farmers these days would probably stay with their pick up. The only ones that would really want a full on 4 x 4 Old Defender Style is probably the people like yourself who use the vehicle for off road fun... typically second hand vehicles... because of taking big £ off road and damaging it. But unless someone buys them new there are no second hand ones.. So where is the market? so from a business perspective does it make sense to spend 200 Million pounds developing something that sells in limited numbers? How many Defenders did JLR sell in their last 5 years globally before the model was stopped? The compromise is probably they need to do a more stripped down version of this one... |
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8th Dec 2020 7:33pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2626  
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Which is why Ford, somehow, needs to get the Bronco into the UK.
A question for the future, when will (not if) JLR remove the transfer box and then turn it into an expensive option to save weight and save costs. If enough 'new owners' are not using it I can see JLR removing it as they did with the RRS. That from an enthusiasts point of view will be the nail in the coffin, the Hollywood or premier league celebrity wont even notice. I'll bet my chocolate coins on the Xmas tree that it will be gone in the next five years..... |
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8th Dec 2020 7:39pm |
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