 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > A St P White justifies his last video..... |
 
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5038   
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I doubt they will, not the dna of that model Mike
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8th Dec 2020 9:40pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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It's no longer a 4x4 ~ wasn't that at the core of the dna?
What about the locking centre differential ~ now gone. It seems there are no sacred cows as far as JLR are concerned ~ I'm sure they think they can market and spin away from a transfer box. Most owners won't actually know what it is. JLR still talk about the chassis on the new model, despite it not having one. The facts never get in the way of a good story. |
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8th Dec 2020 10:00pm |
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| AndrewS Member Since: 10 Apr 2007 Location: Hereford Posts: 3708 
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Electric drive motors on each corner and do away with the transmission all together. 130's have feeling's as well you know
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9th Dec 2020 12:21am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Indeed. All civilian Land Rovers were part-time 4WD, and didn’t even have a centre diff to lock, until the Stage 1 V8. The clutch pack centre differential in the Intelligent AWD system can lock front and rear output with 50/50 torque split just like a basic mechanical centre diff. Presumably the viscous diff in later RR Classics and P38s was also a betrayal, the non-locking Torsen in a pre-facelift L322 more so? |
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9th Dec 2020 2:13am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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When you look at the benefits of such a system, engineered from a perspective of making the vehicle more competent then it seems a good way to go. Last edited by Supacat on 9th Dec 2020 7:31am. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Dec 2020 6:54am |
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| Simon Audi Member Since: 19 Nov 2020 Location: Newport Posts: 544
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In less than 10 years - in UK it will be the only way to go - based on current direction...
So buy your ICE now... |
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9th Dec 2020 7:02am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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"The best 4x4xfar" ~ it just can't be said now ~ is that strap line something else Ineos will relieve them of?
JLR of old developed an off road system, and made improvements but the primary criteria it used was always the terrain it could pass over. An "Intelligent" [really is that any more than marketing guff] AWD system in such a vehicle as a Defender has not been engineered with the ultimate goal of making it more accomplished or go further off road. It's there to help with mpg and CO2 outputs. And the complexity it adds gives additional maintenance issues to any long term owner. The AWD system is to the drivetrain, what the catalytic converter, exhaust gas recirculation, diesel particulate filter and diesel exhaust fluid are to internal combustion engine ~ nothing more than a series of shackles aimed at obtaining regulatory compliance rather than any material advancement in vehicle performance. In responding to these external factors, JLR is not making a better vehicle, but just going deeper into the cul de sac of dead end development because it failed to see where trends were leading, lacks the fleetness of foot to adjust its step, and doesn't have the financial clout of the big manufacturers to throw money at digging themselves out of the hole they are in. In a word (or two), on a rising tide of SUV sales, JLR thought too much of themselves, rested on their laurels, stroked the ego of the senior management and above all dithered, leading to where they are today. As a postscript, it looks like the halo off road product in JLR's lineup shares an "Intelligent All-Wheel Drive system" with... a Ford Kuga (is that the halo off road model in their lineup?): https://www.carscoops.com/2020/12/ford-det...ct-system/ "The new Ford Kuga is equipped with a clever Disconnect feature that uses artificial intelligence to switch off the crossover’s all-wheel drive system in favorable driving conditions, thus boosting fuel efficiency." “We designed our new Kuga Hybrid to help drivers save on fuel costs, and the artificial intelligence of AWD disconnect means they can do exactly that while still getting all the benefits of Intelligent All-Wheel Drive.”  Click image to enlarge Last edited by Supacat on 9th Dec 2020 8:02am. Edited 2 times in total |
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9th Dec 2020 7:28am |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2645  
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9th Dec 2020 7:35am |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1319 
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I'll bet my chocolate coins that it will be more than the transfer box that has gone in the next five years time. The brand will have either ceased to be entirely or have been sold on yet again to some other entity to pick over the carcass. Either way, it's future looks bleak. Vanity, an appalling reputation for unreliability and obscenely high purchase and running costs have all but killed it off. |
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9th Dec 2020 9:32am |
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| LRSpain004 Member Since: 30 Jun 2020 Location: Elche Posts: 68 
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lohr500
'' The brand will have either ceased to be entirely or have been sold on yet again to some other entity to pick over the carcass. Either way, it's future looks bleak. Vanity, an appalling reputation for unreliability and obscenely high purchase and running costs have all but killed it off.'' |
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9th Dec 2020 10:08am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Given the old one was never sold in all global markets that the new one is: Click image to enlarge Whilst the new Defender was forecast at 100k per annum but is currently hitting an annualised run rate of 20,986. |
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9th Dec 2020 10:25am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841  
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By that argument, why do Ferrari and other hyper cars exist, they’ll never be used on track? More pertinently, (or less obtusely),, if 99.99999% of people will never off-road, why don’t they simply buy one of the other SUVs that are already available and are 99.9999% road biased instead? JLR have one or two on offer. Indeed they already have 8, so why build yet another one? Yet another 99% road biased SUV? Or why did they call this one a Defender when it’s so clearly a Discovery? The original Discovery was built to create a more off-road capable, but street-biased vehicle than the RR and/or a more comfortable yet capable off-road biased vehicle than the then Tdis. A comfortable, capable middle ground. This is exactly what the new Defender is. It’s the perfect Disco, great on and off road, whilst the current Disco is a bit blugh. But it is most certainly not a Defender in the sense a Defender was for 70 years. Basic, robust, easily fixed, go anywhere, highly highly adaptable, and sensibly priced. Which of those credentials does the new Defender have that even remotely compares with the last Defender or could even reasonably been seen as lineage, bar off-roading (which apparently it will never do)? With the last Defender JLR had more than enough history, legacy, fan-base, military/industrial/overland demand, cult ownership etc, that they could have done exactly what Ratcliffe is doing (basically improving the sh** bits on the pre-2016 Defender) and sold it in the units needed to pay for itself. I’m sure all of those who’ve bought the new Defender are happy with it, and why not, it’s a great car. But you cannot say it’s a logical continuation of the previous vehicle given how many pre-2016 owners do NOT want to buy one, and how many new owners (who might otherwise have considered other JLR SUVs or even Merc, Audi, Jeep etc) now are. That’s what ASPW is alluding to. 70 years of legacy (vehicle and users) discarded overnight. Fine if it was the only SUV JLR made and they absolutely had to broaden the appeal to sell in high numbers, but they don’t. They only make SUVs. 8 of them prior to this model, catering to every need, taste and budget. So why another one? Or if it had to be built, why not in replacement to a clearly mediocre and under-selling model, the Disco5. This never, ever needed to be branded as a Defender, nor did a Grenadier-style reincarnation need to be consigned to the dust bin. It will be interesting to see in 5 years time just how many units of New Def are sold in comparison to Grenadier and what the breakdown will be; completely new buyer, former JLR fan, former Def owner, current Def owner etc. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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9th Dec 2020 10:47am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
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My forefathers fought bloody hard to bring that name across the channel. Bah humbug.    Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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9th Dec 2020 10:54am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17466 
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Every single one they bothered to make, and then some. They could have sold significantly more but I suspect throttled production to drive the prices up. It should also be borne in mind that the final years of Defender production were dominated by the more SUV-like, up-spec models, aimed at the affluent leisure market like the new one. |
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9th Dec 2020 11:01am |
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