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Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

Have to say the blind worship of the Grenadire is still amusing.

9th Dec 2020 11:02am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

https://twitter.com/i/status/1336262374450483202

Emilio Monelli (@monel1976) Tweeted:
@thealso enjoy 🤣 https://t.co/NeMXGhjLm1 https://twitter.com/monel1976/status/1336262374450483202?s=20

Click image to enlarge

9th Dec 2020 2:37pm

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

Presumably a Grenadire would have gone up on summer road tyres? Its rugged, macho, 1950s real 4WD tech surely transcends any concept of rubber compound and tread design.

9th Dec 2020 2:45pm

Grenadier

Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

^^^ Have you watched the videos on the development of the Grenadier? Many here have watched every one. Further, many on here are life-long Defender owners and have exceptional knowledge of the Defender and its strengths and faults. What’s more, many have engineering backgrounds. So there’s nothing blind about it. If you like the looks of pre-2016 Defender (most on here do), if you like it’s simplicity but pain at it’s faults (many on here do), and if you know all the areas the Defender could (should) have been improved (nearly every one on here does) then the logical progression is the Grenadier.

It has addressed nearly all the faults of the <2016 Defender and by sourcing the very best engineering and technology to boot. But importantly it has done so without being at the expense of the vehicle’s purpose, that being utilitarian, robust, adaptable and ‘relatively’ affordable. It’s nothing less than the ba*t*rd off spring of the Defender, better, stronger, faster, fitter and bigger. And all of its development has not only been done with seemingly no care for budget, simply ensuring the best tech/engineering is used to achieve its stated aim, but it has done so openly from day one. Why? To show JLR that despite their assertions to the contrary, the <2016 Defender could have been improved and evolved, but not by turning it into a SUV.

That’s not blind, that’s people who have a deep understanding of what the Grenadier means as an option for future utilitarian 4x4s. Despite their billions and 70+ years of history, LR haven’t managed that. Indeed they’ve ignored it. They’ve dropped the baton and Ineos have picked it up. Personally I think LR royally f**ked up and I think they know it (hence their attempts to block Ineos, to copyright the shape etc). If the threat wasn’t real, they wouldn’t care a chuff. So they’re watching Grenadier just as keenly as we are. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

9th Dec 2020 4:22pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3390

Philip wrote:
Presumably a Grenadire would have gone up on summer road tyres? Its rugged, macho, 1950s real 4WD tech surely transcends any concept of rubber compound and tread design.

The Evoque performs a lot better in snow than that video shows.

9th Dec 2020 4:31pm

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

The Grendier will almost certainly be a commercial failure by any rational measure - there’s a reason it took a billionaire’s whim to design a 1960s car with a 2020s drivetrain.

9th Dec 2020 4:34pm

SteveG

Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 659

Philip wrote:
The Grendier will almost certainly be a commercial failure by any rational measure - there’s a reason it took a billionaire’s whim to design a 1960s car with a 2020s drivetrain.

Do you not have anything more productive to do, than trying to wind people up on here?

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but can you please try and be more civil and less antagonistic 👍

9th Dec 2020 5:05pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Philip wrote:
The Grendier will almost certainly be a commercial failure by any rational measure - there’s a reason it took a billionaire’s whim to design a 1960s car with a 2020s drivetrain.

Does it matter, if we all get a vehicle that's funded by the largesse of a billionaire? Haven't some of the best motors in the world lost money for the manufacturer. Isn't that sometimes what happens with halo motors.

Is there a downside to an owner paying say £45k for a vehicle that's cost the manufacturer say £60k to make? Better that way round than the message from JLR senior management who are on record as saying the new Defender would be a highly profitable vehicle for them; I can only read that as selling a vehicle for say £45k that's cost them say £25k to make.

Having said that, it must really push the financials into the black being gifted a modern production plant, with a highly skilled workforce and contract assembly revenue...

Where does the new Defender sit with your rational measures?

Last edited by Supacat on 9th Dec 2020 6:29pm. Edited 1 time in total

9th Dec 2020 5:58pm

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

No, I agree - I’d love to indulge myself as a billionaire, too.

I like the new Defender a lot, but I’ll qualify that by saying I would obviously have preferred the possibility of a pickup, chassis cab etc (but understand why the business case wasn’t as sound). Realistically nothing is imminently going to threaten the global reach of the 1/2 ton pick ups as cheap utility vehicles, and JLR certainly aren’t in a position to try. Even VW aren’t, given the next Amarok is going to be a Ford.

As it is, I can’t see anything that a Hard Top won’t do better than the old Defenders, Discovery I commercial, twin cabs, D3 commercial etc that we’ve had before (D3 loadspace possibly aside).

9th Dec 2020 6:23pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

Well, fitting through the narrow gates in Wales for a starter

2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

21st Dec 2020 7:32pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

More tomfoolery...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1341439870477213697

22nd Dec 2020 6:36pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Big wide tyres and zero mechanical grip will do that.... Basically, Unless you've got a proper lsd or locking diffs, Electronics are useless... they can only re-act to the lack of grip, usually by cutting all the power or banging the brakes on... Don't even get me started on air suspension... jack it up to get ground clearance and you have no suspension movement left... So even less mechanical grip.... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

22nd Dec 2020 7:55pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3390

Fool of an owner is the problem.

22nd Dec 2020 10:00pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

Absolutely - not understanding the system and how to drive it.

Tyres, weight etc help but still

Plus 6ft either side may have different conditions Mike

23rd Dec 2020 10:10am

DSL

Member Since: 20 Aug 2007
Location: Wandering the wasteland.
Posts: 837

The wrong car with the right tyres will trounce the right car with the wrong tyres.

23rd Dec 2020 12:07pm

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