 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > New Defender vs G Wagen off road video |
 
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3425  
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Rock crawl and the new wade setting are standard TR settings provided the car has air suspension.
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29th Jul 2020 4:20pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3425
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My Velar is R-Dynamic and came with the Dynamic setting and adaptive dampers, makes a big difference to the comfort over cars without. Though I had to get one replaced a month into ownership.
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29th Jul 2020 4:46pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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Both my Evoque's came with the continuously auto adjusting suspension - it was called MagnaRide I think Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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29th Jul 2020 4:49pm |
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| Digger2000 Member Since: 19 Sep 2020 Location: Newcastle Posts: 590  
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Wow this is very disappointing! Surely LR would be testing the new defender against G Wagons to make sure it could wipe the floor with it in off road conditions?! |
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12th Oct 2020 11:56pm |
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| Digger2000 Member Since: 19 Sep 2020 Location: Newcastle Posts: 590
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Just been reading that same page about the configurable terrain response (CTR) it’s confusing as above that it states centre is locking differential and rear is limited slip differential but then further down you get to that CTR section and states both are limited slip differentials. I would of thought on a Land Rover Defender they would of at least had one locking differential. Why would they leave such a vital off road component off the production build car? Surely if this vehicle doesn’t beat the competition out there it’s failed especially when it carries the slogan best4x4xfar I’m mind boggled at this. Maybe they have a more serious off road model in the works but at what cost?... |
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13th Oct 2020 12:35am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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One if the issues with a lot of the testers is they show huge amounts of wheelspin in rock crawling mode and seem to have forgotten that autos default to starting off in 1st gear regardless of whether they are in high or low range whereas everyone driving a manual gear boxed car would start off in those situations in low 3rd - they also forget that the auto has a manual shift mode but LR chooses to label it S on the top of the selector. If test drivers and video makers simply moved the gear selector to the left to what would be Sport in high box they would find that in low box and especially with the Diesel engines where maximum torque occurs at 1400rom you can utilise the torque much better using manually selected gears. I’ve found I can easily pull away in low 3rd,4th 5th or 6th and using low 3rd is just like driving my 1996 Defender 90 with next to no wheel spin on pull away on most surfaces. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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13th Oct 2020 5:12am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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I'm not sure the testers forgot anything, the very early ones were shaperoned by JRL, and all the associated bumf they were given and no doubt briefed about was how capable the vehicle was probably laboured the point JLR has been highlighting everywhere: the vehicle does it all for you.
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13th Oct 2020 6:02am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2651  
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IME, I've found ATPC to be useless on my L494 other than on flat & hard surfaces... I've tried it in sand, and went nowhere. I've tried it on rocky trails, and the car kangaroos up the trail, not smooth at all. I've tried it on gravely trails, and again it's not smooth at all. Last month I tried it on a gravel hill climb (about 20deg slope), and it kept saying 'ATPC only available for descent' -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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13th Oct 2020 6:45am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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2 weeks ago on the LRE Dunkeld Adventure Trek day I did, when we had a stop in the afternoon I mentioned that I was using manual shift low 3rd rather than leaving the shifter in D to the lead driver/instructor who is also the owner of the centre. We discussed which settings in TR we had used and he said he too had tried driving the car that way and despite what JLR had told them pre-launch he would now be instructing people the two ways and letting them drive either the LR way or as we found, in manual mode. He agreed that the wheelspin was considerably reduced and when we did some rocky stuff we both found in Rock Crawl this way was also done with less fuss. In an old Defender with manual gears and a low box I was taught that 1st should only be used for control on steep downhills for engine braking not for pulling away or climbing step slopes off-road and to utilise the engines’ s torque and avoid spinning the wheels thus damaging the ground.
There have been numerous comments by yourself and many others about the disappointing amount of wheelspin shown by New Defender in videos and I’m sharing my findings and just saying that there is a way to considerably reduce it or even stop it. You don’t have to agree with me but you won’t be able to test it unless you try it for yourself. All those ECU’s help the car to be quite capable of moving along at less than walking pace but still at peak torque without wheelspin in relatively higher gears than the previous Defender. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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13th Oct 2020 8:32am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Hey, there's no better way to learn a new vehicle than get out there and try it for yourself. For that I applaud you. There is no implied criticism of this or disagreement; I'm just pointing out, as your instructor also did, the contrast with the official JLR views and techniques.
I'd put more faith in your approach to listening to JLR at the moment. If I have a point, it's just that. |
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13th Oct 2020 10:50am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I wonder if the outcome might have been different if the Defender had the locking rear diff and a stronger engine; also think that there’s a general tendency to criticise TC operation when you see it controlling a wheel - whereas that same reactive behaviour could, in a particular situation, be operating to give better progress than simply being physically locked across an axle. There’s a wet grass tug of war video out there between a Sport SVR and a current G63 - the SVR (on giant summer road tyres) wins because of its traction control, whereas the G completely disables all electronic assistance with any of its diffs locked (even just the centre one when done manually, as far as I can tell - which is at least now a more modern multi-plate version). If the answer to every single situation was a simple locked or unlocked diff, everything would have that because it would be an awful lot cheaper to manufacture and develop than electronically-controlled limited slip/locking diffs used in combination with TC. What is interesting (and I haven’t seen much information about so far) is the new variable torque split system for the six cylinder diesel Defenders - it’s clearly CO2-driven insomuch as it disconnects the front axle when possible, but it can direct torque to any corner as required. Interesting to see what happens in the various TR modes. |
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13th Oct 2020 2:16pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8155 
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we always taught customers to use command shift on anything other than a 3hr freebie from JLR. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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13th Oct 2020 7:21pm |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 403  
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I wouldn't agree with that. There are plenty of climbs where you want to creep up in low 1st at idle in an old model if traction is good. The only thing certain about 'rules' being taught off road is that at some point in life you'll learn you need to ignore them... --- 2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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13th Oct 2020 9:39pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2767
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Really interesting video! (Found English subtitles half way though if anyone else didn’t...)
I’d say what I took away from that was how good a new defender with the rear locker would hopefully be. Certainly an essential spec if you want to use more than just basic off road abilities. I suspect an old/original defender (especially one without traction control or aftermarket lockers) would have struggled quite a bit there - can be embarrassingly hard to get a cross-axled defender going in my experience. All interesting stuff! Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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14th Oct 2020 11:26pm |
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