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Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

AndrewS wrote:
See below a very basic comparison between a tow fixing on the left and a recovery point on the right in red. Green lines are bolts as you can see the proper fixing on the right will do a proper job is transmitting the forces through the chassis.

Click image to enlarge

PS I know ive cross threaded the one bolt

I'll come to your upper post later, as I feel that it needs a decent response, but this post is just utter rubbish. The reason for the bracing back to the chassis is because the actual towing point is below the horizontal plane of the chassis and is there to counteract any bending/twisting moment.

If the towing point is mounted directly to the chassis then the forces acting on it are co~planar (relatively).

Do those drawings again in evalation rather than plan and see the purpose of the support arms.

25th Jul 2020 5:49pm

lohr500

Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1316

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Agree Supacat. I stand to be corrected, but I don't recall any bracing back to the chassis legs on the military LR's where the NATO pintle was mounted directly on the cross member.

25th Jul 2020 6:14pm

Devon-Rover

Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 916

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green

The MOD defenders might have additional strengthening on the rear crossmember. The old series vehicles had a specific crossmember for such purpose, newer coilers I don't know.

HOWEVER

The Nato Hook, Jaw, Pintle , Hitch Whatever I feel is just a Towing device not a Recovery device.

But that is another can of worms for another day.

As a paraphase of what Andrew s said,

Just because it has been done doesn't mean it is the done thing.

I'm guilty as charged of using a Dixon bate HD pin hitch as a recovery device but it was on a hitch with bracing legs and it was a minor towing operation. I now have a receiver hitch as I feel it is a safer option. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest

26th Jul 2020 4:20pm

Thon

Member Since: 22 Nov 2015
Location: Salisbury Plain
Posts: 696

ALRC (Association of Land Rover Clubs) have accepted 50mm tow balls, dixon bate pin hitches and NATO hitches as suitable recovery points (providing they are correctly secured) since I started trialing over 25 years ago for RTV , CCV and Comp Safari.

26th Jul 2020 11:16pm

Devon-Rover

Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 916

Yes they do, but the green book has been built on a continual what has been done and not gone wrong so we shall continue to do it this way mentality. In my competitive span I have seen some trying huge forces put through those recovery points and 9 times out of ten it has been a failure of the chassis member around the point. This was the steering of the latest ruling of having a mandatory backing plate on all recovery points. Although TD5's etc with the fixed captive nuts in the rear crossmember are exempt.

I have witnessed a scrutineer who sits on the ALRC SORC demand that a competitor not use the supplied steel pin for the recovery billet on their receiver hitch and use a M10 HT bolt instead. Even though it is no way the right application, he couldn't see it as making the point unsafe.

I have used my ALRC knowledge as a basis of what you can get away with in a pinch but i'm always looking on how to improve and find safer ways. It helps us all then. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest

27th Jul 2020 5:26am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

^^ Given that every receiver hitch I have come across has used a 16mm diameter pin, that is rather disturbing!

27th Jul 2020 10:11am

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3395

They are now on the Powerful UK website, £95 inc the trim finisher.

https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land-r...black.html

28th Jul 2020 8:32pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

They were on but showing as out of stock earlier, maybe yesterday morning, so there must have been a supply come through.

29th Jul 2020 6:15am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

AndrewS wrote:

A proper recovery point will have fixings out to the chassis to spread the load (a bridal). The fixings to the chassis will be in shear along with the fixings into the crossmember that are in tension. With a tow jaw you are relying on a couple of threads in a nut Its not a pretty site when they fail under load, especially when they leave the vehicle

So JLR have got it wrong on the new Defender as well then?

Click image to enlarge

29th Jul 2020 6:24am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

J77 wrote:
They are now on the Powerful UK website, £95 inc the trim finisher.

https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land-r...black.html

Interesting to see the designers had a trim finish that got lost somewhere further down the line:

Click image to enlarge

29th Jul 2020 8:38pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

Supacat wrote:
AndrewS wrote:

A proper recovery point will have fixings out to the chassis to spread the load (a bridal). The fixings to the chassis will be in shear along with the fixings into the crossmember that are in tension. With a tow jaw you are relying on a couple of threads in a nut Its not a pretty site when they fail under load, especially when they leave the vehicle

So JLR have got it wrong on the new Defender as well then?

Click image to enlarge

Why? 130's have feeling's as well you know

29th Jul 2020 9:27pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3395

Supacat wrote:
J77 wrote:
They are now on the Powerful UK website, £95 inc the trim finisher.

https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land-r...black.html

Interesting to see the designers had a trim finish that got lost somewhere further down the line:

Click image to enlarge

Seems a waste to go to the effort of designing them and then not fitting them to production vehicles

Even the X doesn’t get them

Click image to enlarge

29th Jul 2020 10:42pm

MrEleven

Member Since: 15 May 2020
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 112

So im guessing if you could buy the finisher inserts separate, you could just use them with the screw in loops ?

30th Jul 2020 7:11am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

Click image to enlarge

When I look at that photo I am struck by how many expensive bits could get damaged in a minor rear-end impact! I suspect that repair bills for this vehicle could be substantial, although I guess that is generally true for all modern vehicles.

30th Jul 2020 7:50am

umbertob

Member Since: 21 Jun 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 133

You actually can buy those trim pieces separately.

30th Jul 2020 7:55am

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