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defender9

Member Since: 12 Mar 2016
Location: Fylde Coast
Posts: 1629

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

The majority of folks on this Forum appear to like what they see with the Grenadier including me. There are Defender design cues of this there is no doubt, Jim Radcliffe was a Defender fan so it’s not really surprising. However design aside it looks like this vehicle has been made to do a job of work as a utility vehicle should be. I do hope it turns out to be a true utility with all the options which that entails. I don’t need a Defender but I own one because I like vehicles which are not pretentious and each to their own but I don’t like blinged up Defenders either. I’m looking forward to seeing the final incarnation in the metal. As I said I don’t need a utility vehicle but I may just want this one.

4th Jul 2020 1:39pm

Ads90

Member Since: 16 Jun 2008
Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds
Posts: 809

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Keswick Green

I think it's fair to say that if this model had just come out of another part of the world, many Brits would be crying foul on the similarities to Defender.
The fact that it has a British back-story that involves the man who tried to buy Defender production off LR when they washed their hands of it, and intends to build them in the UK, seems to make the 'homage to Defender' design nods ok. And I'm ok with that too.
Whether LR will be is another thing.

4th Jul 2020 2:16pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3280

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

Quote:
I wonder what the people would have said if a Chinese car company would have done the same?

Nearly everyone here would hate it. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

4th Jul 2020 2:28pm

Lodelaner

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue

Another thing that differentiates the Grenadier from Land Rover is that it’ll be open sourced design so that other companies can develop specialised equipment and modifications.

That’s the exact opposite of Land Rover who have publicly stated that they want to put aftermarket modifiers ‘out of business’.

Nice. JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content

4th Jul 2020 2:31pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Re: Blatant copy

Eppilihp wrote:
The truck will be good, or not. We will see.

However, the design is a shockingly blatant copy of the Defender. Form follows function? Rubbish, this is just a PR thing. Nothing else, just like the story about the pub. 100% PR. They aren’t any better than those Chinese copycats IMO! Highly disrespectful!

Now let’s hope at least the truck is any good...

You should really read about the origins of the company and the vehicle. What goes around comes around.

There is no Intellectual Property in the Defender shape, or none that JLR could demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Intellectual Property Office.

If you want to talk respect, where's the respect of JLR, for their Defender customers when instead of selling the manufacturing equipment to a third party, they follow a scorched earth policy?

4th Jul 2020 3:36pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3280

Yep, intellectual property is a very complicated and nuanced business, often decided in court. I suspect the main reason the Grenadier’s grille looks off is because they had to make a real effort for the design not to fall foul of legalities. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

4th Jul 2020 4:05pm

Lodelaner

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

It already has been decided in court hasn’t it? JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

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4th Jul 2020 4:43pm

LandymanStefan

Member Since: 30 Aug 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 881

It was kind of obvious that it was going to look very defendery. They offered to pay to keep defender production going. Tried to buy the machines and designs off Land Rover.

People saying that we wouldnt like it if it was made in china is completely right. People have always seen the defender as a truly British thing, when you think of the English countryside you picture farmland, a farmer with a dog and a Landy. I seem to remember everyone being incredibly miffed about the new defender being made in Slovakia. I dont know any official figures but i imagine the orignals defenders biggest market was probably the UK. People will like that its been designed and made in the UK its something to be proud of and supporting jobs here. Better than JLR's approach of moving production of the model which supposedly represents all those years of its heritage to Slovakia.

4th Jul 2020 4:53pm

dailysleaze

Member Since: 23 May 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 237

If you copy something and make it worse, it's plagiarism
If you copy something and make it better, it's inspiration

The first example you have a case, the second: tough

4th Jul 2020 5:03pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Don;t forget peeps, The original 80 series 'Defender' was really a British copy of a jeep.... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

4th Jul 2020 5:38pm

Mossberg

Member Since: 29 Feb 2020
Location: Lancs
Posts: 553

1993 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Aintree Green

Zed wrote:
Quote:
I wonder what the people would have said if a Chinese car company would have done the same?

Nearly everyone here would hate it.

I agree, if it was from China people would hate it, but because they would feel something that was iconic had been ripped off and turned into a cheaper more likely (?) to fail truck.

If this becomes a British made truck that gets built with great quality and reliability whilst recreating what we admire in the 4x4 that was the basis of the original land rover.

I look forward to this becoming a great success so that one day I may be able to afford a second hand one.

4th Jul 2020 5:42pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4208

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

I don't really care what nationality the manufacturer is. What draws me to it is the words coming out of Ineos abut the engineering and fitness for purpose. If Chinese firm was making the same noises I would be just as interested. I'm pleased it will be assembled in the UK but that's not the main priority to me. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

4th Jul 2020 5:58pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

As I said in the other post on the 2020 pretender......

If the square boxy shape works (for bolting things onto, modifying, standing on etc) then why change it?

Hell, maybe the grenadier will have TUAAM boxes (althoug not needed for the bowman), Tommy chest and camnet slung on the roof before long.

(althougn I hope the UK MoD buy G's......)

4th Jul 2020 6:27pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Widget wrote:
It already has been decided in court hasn’t it?

Last I read JLR were going to take their case to court to review the IPO decision; but not heard anything since?

4th Jul 2020 7:00pm

Thon

Member Since: 22 Nov 2015
Location: Salisbury Plain
Posts: 696

I'd be reeeeally surprised if INEOS haven't done their due diligence on IP and patent infringements.

This subject goes beyond the visual aspects of the Grenadier - what really matters is the overall design, which seems to be ticking the box for many (me included) who are looking for a new vehicle which offers a viable and thoroughly updated version of the original Defender, and in particular its core attributes of ruggedness, all-terrain ability, longevity, adaptability and versatility.

As for the comment about the Grenadier being disrespectful, surely this is no more than INEOS meeting a demand for a vehicle market that JLR have systematically paid lip service to since the days of the old 2.5 turbo diesel engine in the mid/late 80s, which must have been the 1st nail in the Defender "utility" coffin, allowing Toyota to make great headway into the NGO market. I would consider that strategy of ignoring the market more disrespectful personally.

4th Jul 2020 9:21pm

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