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Pacha

Member Since: 23 Feb 2020
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 772

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

Supacat wrote:
Widget wrote:
It already has been decided in court hasn’t it?

Last I read JLR were going to take their case to court to review the IPO decision; but not heard anything since?

They were told that they had no IPO whatsoever. Rgds.

Chris

4th Jul 2020 10:10pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

I'm assuming you are talking about a review of the initial decision?

Got a link for that?

It appears there has been some movement - I've updated this thread:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic70401...tellectual

5th Jul 2020 5:51am

Pacha

Member Since: 23 Feb 2020
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 772

Chartered Institute of Trade Mark Attorneys take on it.

https://www.citma.org.uk/resources/road-to-refusal.html Rgds.

Chris

6th Jul 2020 7:11pm

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2630

Ferrari have just lost a case to trade mark the 250 GTO

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/ferrar...d=msedgntp

I thought that JLR had lost their case due to the number of people that though the profile was a 'Jeep'......

6th Jul 2020 7:33pm

Eppilihp

Member Since: 10 Aug 2019
Location: Emmental
Posts: 61

Slideywindows wrote:
The "copy or not copy" is of complete irrelevance (in the absence of a law suit).

What actually matters is: will it do the job it is designed for, will it appeal to the market it is aimed at, and will it be affordable in that market?

Why on earth are we discussing design?

Leave that to Gerry, for heavens sake!

I fully agree, what matters is will it do the job or not, and how much will it cost. And personally I like most of what we know (apart from the design, obviously). This is probably why the look of the car disturbs me

Why are we discussing design? Well, design is important and if somebody claims this truck is designed according to the principles of "function over form" and it just so happens to look almost exactly like a defender in many key aspects, then you know something is fishy. By copying the visual cues from the defender they want to create certain emotions which is pure marketing and has nothing to do with "engineering decisions".

BTW the same goes with this "British" thing - as I understand it the Grenadier is largely developed by Magna, the ladder frame comes from Portugal, the beam axles from Italy and the drive train from Germany. Only the final assembly is done in Wales. This is not exactly what I would call a British car, but people want to hear it's British, so that's what they tell you...

7th Jul 2020 7:38am

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3149

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Probably about as "British" as JLR, where does Mr.Tata live again?

If you look at most utility 4x4s from the 1950s to 1990s they are pretty much the same in terms of size and shape. I see a lot of G wagen (which is basically a Defender with a merc badge on) and Isuzu Trooper and Shogum in the design. They are all pretty similar vehicles really.

If it evokes feelings about the old Defender it should be no surprise as it is aimed at the market JLR have abandoned. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

7th Jul 2020 10:27am

Mike_E

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 161

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Aintree Green

markb110 wrote:
Technically as NEW vehicles go it is not a copy of the Defender that can be bought new from the dealers today.

It does have a passing resemblance to a vehicle that was last offered at a JLR dealership about four years ago ......

or one of these...

Click image to enlarge

Is that a RHD 65 plate 70series in the UK!?!??!?!?!?

21st Jul 2020 1:09pm

Black Puma

Member Since: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 187

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Sumatra Black

Interesting video. Makes me think... how many times people have referred unknowingly to my 90 as - "your Jeep".

28th Dec 2020 6:38am

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Black Puma - but are people referring to it as a brand name/trade mark (as in vacuum cleaners universally being referred to as Hoovers or like in many parts of the world where toothpaste is known as Colgate) that has become generic or as a corruption of GP as in general purpose.........

I suspect that both Jaguar Land Rover and Ineos will both become poorer fighting over this, while their lawyers get considerably richer....... Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

28th Dec 2020 9:45am

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

Mike_E wrote:
markb110 wrote:
Technically as NEW vehicles go it is not a copy of the Defender that can be bought new from the dealers today.

It does have a passing resemblance to a vehicle that was last offered at a JLR dealership about four years ago ......

or one of these...

Click image to enlarge

Is that a RHD 65 plate 70series in the UK!?!??!?!?!?

LOVELY!!!! That's another vapour garage vehicle I'd like..... a 76 wagon and a 78 'troopy (and a grenadier... and a G professional, and a hilux double cab.... and a mog... and and and....)

28th Dec 2020 10:26am

Black Puma

Member Since: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 187

That's a good point Tim In Scotland.

As a trademarked shape/form, it can said the Landy shape evolved into its own fairly recognisable shape with the County. But still 99% of people here in Aus, will see a defender, and call it a Jeep.

I found interesting the case for the USA. INEOS did not eventually argue the TM shape/forms. Anything to do with the Defender selling only 7000 units over 4-5 years? Or just the battle to meet emission and safety standards... which I'd assume the Grenadier will meet.

29th Dec 2020 5:16am

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2630

Mike_E wrote:
markb110 wrote:
Technically as NEW vehicles go it is not a copy of the Defender that can be bought new from the dealers today.

It does have a passing resemblance to a vehicle that was last offered at a JLR dealership about four years ago ......

or one of these...

Click image to enlarge

Is that a RHD 65 plate 70series in the UK!?!??!?!?!?

Yes, Sainsburys car park near to Brookwood Cemetery in Surrey - 2020, I've been to all the glamorous places during the various lockdowns...

The below was in Cornwall a few years ago. German registered.

Click image to enlarge

29th Dec 2020 4:04pm

Ramsay

Member Since: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Moffat, Dumfries & Galloway
Posts: 627

1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Auto Keswick Green

If they were still around it is Santana who should be feeling hard done by. The Series IV is very close in look to the Grenadier.

[url] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Santana_Motor[/url] 1995 Defender 110 CSW
1971 SIIA Lightweight

29th Dec 2020 7:59pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3393

Black Puma wrote:
That's a good point Tim In Scotland.

As a trademarked shape/form, it can said the Landy shape evolved into its own fairly recognisable shape with the County. But still 99% of people here in Aus, will see a defender, and call it a Jeep.

A lot of people here see a Land Rover and call it a Jeep

24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue

30th Dec 2020 8:24pm

1969UK

Member Since: 22 Jan 2021
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 8

discomog wrote:
I don't see the problem that it resembles certain design aspects of the Defender (and the Jimny and the G Wagen). If it's a utility 4x4 then it will look similar to other 4x4's. It's no different to all Korean SUV's that look alike or to most European hatchbacks that look the same.

I've just bought SWMBO a strimmer for her birthday (and they say romance is dead!) - every one I looked at looked exactly the same. It's pretty obvious that design is a result of form and function. So of course the Grenadier is going to resemble other 4x4's.

I’ll let you into a little secret, the vehicle that was recently reviewed in Derbyshire driving around the Peak District in December wasn’t actually 4WD and was towed into several positions for filming for a certain motoring show.

The interiors are also not finalised yet so this vehicle is far away from the finish line.

22nd Jan 2021 7:34pm

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