 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Rocky start for Land Rover’s new Defender |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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These issues are systemic and not related just to any individual model. The key metric is the cost to JLR of warranty work - a point Speth himself made when explaining away the lack of profit in the last published annual report. The facts and figures are there for all to see - it's strange to see apologists for JLR arguing against the points made by the esteemed leader himself.  |
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24th Jun 2020 8:02am |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3404 
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Those graphs don’t show the 90, customers such as myself won’t be included in those figures. There is also customers waiting on more engine choices and those waiting to see the 90 before making a decision on what one would suit them, I would say there is demand for the car but lack of engine choice will put people of jumping at the moment.
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24th Jun 2020 8:12am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Genuine question - why do you say those graphs exclude the 90?
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24th Jun 2020 8:15am |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3404
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We can’t submit an order yet, so all I have is an expression of interest. Order won’t be submitted until possibly September. There maybe the odd 90 that’s perhaps made it out before LR delayed production.
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24th Jun 2020 8:22am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I think you are missing the point, perhaps because the facts don't fit your opinions - where were JLR getting their info on the "strong demand" for the new Defender? Those graphs they released showing demand above internal targets...
This is what JLR said to investors after Q3 2020: "The new sensational Defender, I picked mine up yesterday, it really is as amazing as we’ve been saying, I can assure you of that. The orders we’ve received are about five times the number that we would have expected for a vehicle before start of sale date has been announced. You can see there are now more than one million people have completed their configuration online. I’ve mentioned before, lots of people generally start configurations, and very few finish. This is an unprecedented level of one million people completing that configuration. So, that’s another nice signal to us, which tells us this car is going to be super successful." Adrian Mardell – Chief Financial Officer He also said: "We are actually investing more resource to ensure we get our Defender product right, before we launch. Those costs will continue in Q4, but then go away." 11,000 orders taken since September - perhaps a 10 month period, depending on the cut off period cannot be explained by CV19 alone. Also, if China is ahead of us (timeline wise) in terms of dealing with the virus, and Volvos sales numbers are replicated in other markets in the coming months then there is cause for hope. Last edited by Supacat on 24th Jun 2020 9:35am. Edited 1 time in total |
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24th Jun 2020 8:40am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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24th Jun 2020 8:41am |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 820 
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[quote="Supacat"]
maybe i just do not agree with your opinions, as you state, markets will start bouncing back and China is ahead of the recovery curve, the next few months will tell i suspect.. yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport Last edited by zilch on 24th Jun 2020 9:40am. Edited 2 times in total |
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24th Jun 2020 9:19am |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 820
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edited because i cannot be bothered to get into a personal slanging match  yet another pommie bar steward down under
MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport |
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24th Jun 2020 9:22am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I started the thread with an extract from the FT, used quotes, and referenced JLR themselves. I'm not certain my opinions are actually entirely my own. That aside, I welcome your not agreeing with them and constructing an alternative narrative. It's all food for thought, especially on a day like today, where here in the UK, it's already too hot to do anything but chew gums. Returning to the thread, and it's purpose, was to highlight the issue JLR have over playing games with numbers when the truth will always come out in the wash. |
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24th Jun 2020 9:46am |
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| tookaphotoof Member Since: 18 Mar 2013 Location: dordrecht Posts: 1279  
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We can all laugh at Land Rover and its new Defender. We can all say how good Ineos will be. In the end I'm not so sure the latter will be a real sales hit when it arrives on the market. I'm not so sure my 2013 Defender 130 is as good as the new Defender either. Is it really a bag of  on fancy wheels of are we just a bit it doesn't look as classic as we want it to be?
@Tim... BMW's and other brands as well can also leak. Don't ask me how I know. My last BMW 5 series (2017) had creaking door pillars, as had the one I drove from 2003. My first Defender ever leaked. There is something like warranty. Simply get it fixed. No stress.  |
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24th Jun 2020 9:48am |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283 
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I have no vested interest in you being right Ecco, but I have a gut feeling that you are. The economy may be going to improve, but the vehicle isn't going to get any prettier. If you were the new Defender looking for love on a dating site and got this amount of positive responses, you'd probably go away and slit your wrists..... |
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24th Jun 2020 10:06am |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Gent's I have an update for you...
Yesterday I went for a drive in a new 110, (it was pre-agreed that no photos would be posted). Whilst the Defender2 is not the replacement I wanted to see, hoping that there was room in the LR line up for a true no-nonsense, standards compliant, adaptable, tough, fixable in the field... (you know the arguments...) I have to say I was impressed... all be it, driving around in a (possibly) tougher 'styled' D5 with a X2 + price tag over even a... I've ticked all the boxes Def1, (crazy money really) I hope it doesn't boom for LR and we must acknowledge they have launched at possible one of the worst times for the Car industry. LR has the brand leverage to bring to the Def2 but the practicalities for the 'toughest vehicle in the range' on which it will be judged should overtake the i'm in a LR therefore nothing else matters. The Def2 is what it is... when de-bugged / maybe even face-lifted V2Def2 most will get use to it to a large degree... the absolute must get right issues for world wide markets is the Def2 must outdo its competition and this will be ultimately come down principally to two measures of judgement... capability and reliability (if you can ignore the price  ) SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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24th Jun 2020 10:43am |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 820
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updated after a bit of research CFO statement was 30th January, overall Q3 result notes claim Coronavirus could have an impact on projected numbers, so they did not totally hide this. Notes from FY20 results you can find it here.. https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/2016/repor...-downloads UK/ Europe and US markets Defender release June, China July and rest of world not until August (Australia being one), Call out in the investor pack that pandemic had significant impact on global production and units sold and a quick chart showing sales in Q4 in China.. whilst not at precovid levels, they have recovered a fair bit. That is why i take what journalists say with a pinch of salt, a vehicle launch in the middle of one of the biggest challenges we have faced globally and they seem surprised in the low number of units shifting ..
 Click image to enlarge yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport |
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24th Jun 2020 11:06am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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You are confusing demand, measured as orders taken, and sales, more specifically retail sales.
To be clear JLR had retail sales of the new Defender of 200 vehicles to 31st March 2020. We'll have to wait until July, I think to know the Q1 FY21 figures. When taking about demand, there should also be no confusion with regard to production and whether the vehicles are available to be sold or not. Not sure why you mention production? JLR were vague about the actual numbers of orders taken, preferring to talk about demand in terms of online configurations instead and publish meaningless graphs with no scales. If the figures were good they would have been shouting it out loudly. Now it has published actual orders, there is a disconnect between the figures and the narrative they were previously reports ~ 11,000 orders from the public is not strong demand measured against a target of 100,000 retail sales per annum. So far, the only missing piece of the jigsaw is cancelled orders ~ there I could accept we could start talking about CV19 (amongst other factors).; but if the order book did not get above 11,000 pre~covid then covid is not really a factor, especially in statements put out by JLR that pre~date it! The FT are quoting an analyst ~ that's different from the journalist's own opinion... |
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25th Jun 2020 9:53am |
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