 | Home > In Car Electronics > The definitive Defender ICE thread |
 
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685  
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I'll try and remember to take some shots of mine when I'm out there next.
Just rebuilding it all on a mid positioned bulkhead behind the rear seats of my USW 110, along with a 12v and 240v system for travel. Comprises of a JBL GTO 755.6 6 channel amp from about 2004 which though old is a nice space saving alternative to 2 or 3 X amps to amp the whole vehicle, a pair of the components (pioneer 17cm the oversize ones they did a few years back which got some reasonable reviews) on a fabricated steel angle powder coated rear shelf with wolf boxes in the middle, and custom boxes on the outside for the speakers, and a JL audio 12" sub in a JL box as I'm not up to working out sonic resonance etc! I have yet to change the front speakers, which are simply shocking, but the whole lot is plenty for me. Might pop some foxals in the front when I have some spare funds. All runs from a fairly standard issues Sony headunit with a 6 channel output and the ability to tune at least some of the sound levels to each. Am about to replace the original cheapo RCA feeds with something more akin to at least knowing in my head I had a reasonable go! The speaker cable is average but will do for now. I'm certainly not tearing it all out a second time to upgrade it that's for sure. Sounds ok though  |
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1st Mar 2020 11:21pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20451
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That sounds very comprehensive. Would love to see it. ๐๐ป No Guts, No Glory.
๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช |
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2nd Mar 2020 12:33am |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Don't suppose you know of any good sources for good RCA cables? I need 3 pairs, probably 5m long i won't get away with 3 I don't think. Not worried if the amp remote is included in there or not but i do need to be able to separate them so they go up the mud stuff A-pillar trim and into the headlining.
I've found several "6-wire plus remote" cable bundles in shielded cable for about ยฃ75, but that's quite a lot really.... maybe that's just what you have to pay. http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/accessorie...-rca-cable I mean seriously it's just a wire (but i know i should have one!!) Interior conflict going on.... Wondered if you'd had any experience with different cables that might save some cash. |
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2nd Mar 2020 3:34pm |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1790  
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Matt I might be miles off for an in vehicle installation but we use http://www.Lindy.co.uk and http://www.cpc.farnell.com for AV leads 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon
1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 D250 XS Edition - Gone 2024 110 D250 X-Dynamic HSE |
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2nd Mar 2020 5:38pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20451
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I would look at Stinger for RCA's but be warned quality does cost, although a bit more bulk I'd personally run RCA's separately rather than in one as these are typically higher quality. Unless there is not an option due to size considerations.
Some Amps let you 'daisy chain' RCA's with excellent results but not all do this. I went for Stinger 9000 on mine, they are excellent but they are bulky. (Not a problem for me.) The 4000 series has a much smaller footprint though, that maybe useful with a separate 12v RMT. If that's a bit too spendy I'd think about custom cables via eBay. No Guts, No Glory.
๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช |
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2nd Mar 2020 7:53pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Thanks both for the ideas. Much appreciated.
I've used Farnell before. Great service. Steve, those 9000 series cables look amazing, but probably slightly high end for my decidedly mid range kit!! The 4000 series look more my pricing bracket. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STINGER-SI4417-...Swh4Bd5nBI https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Channel-STING...Sw6eleS62O If i add those two together that gets me a 6-channel feed for about ยฃ30. How good are the 4000 series they seem to get some reasonable reviews. I'm never going to hear the difference in the extra expenditure if i go to the next step up I don't think.... I guess I could buy a couple of pairs in higher quality and then do the internal Sub feed in the amp, but that feels a tad wrong when I've got a sub out on the back of the head unit. |
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3rd Mar 2020 11:20am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20451
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Theyโll be just fine. Only word of caution is donโt overly stress the cable coming out of the rear of the RCA plugs.
Much akin to Apple lighting cables on iPhones or iPads, if that area gets stressed the insulation will split. This isnโt usually a problem, only if regularly moved and twisted and put under strain. No Guts, No Glory.
๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช Last edited by custom90 on 3rd Mar 2020 6:39pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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3rd Mar 2020 1:00pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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cracking stuff. Thanks. Will take photos of it next time i'm out there working on it. |
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3rd Mar 2020 1:44pm |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 823 
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Not wanting to create a whole thread but sitting in my bosses defender and he has a sub and tweeters ect don't know much about ICE.
So my question is this, The main speakers just plug into the loom at the back of the head unit i think. So when you add subs and tweeters you need a crossover, which splits between the main chord according to frequency input between the subs, mains and tweeters ect? Do these crossovers plug into the main head unit loom or do they plug into where the main speakers? Do you need two per side? IE left and right? Do these crossovers boost the electrical voltage to the speakers to keep them powered due to increased demand? looking at this kit from MUD https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/products/audio-...r-kit.html I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html  |
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6th Mar 2020 3:01pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Gap in assumtions there.
So if you start with the standard way "most" cars are set up. The headunit has a stereo amplifier in it. It simply amplifies the signal from whatever your source is, and throws it out the back as a combination of outputs at "high level" i.e. speaker level, to the speakers, via 4 x pairs of wires. All good and lovely. Now look at the speakers in that common set up. Those wires from the headunit, as you rightly say, are delivering the full range of frequencies. Critically though they're also the full range of frequencies at speaker level of power, not signal level of power. Useful in a minute.... The speaker receives that full range signal, and does its best to reproduce it from a single speaker. Thus. Sound. Lovely. Sounds like a rotary telephone receiver handset playing the BT hold music because as you say speakers often aren't great at both top end, bottom end, and middle. So manufacturers then fit tweeters to separate the signals out. They very often dont have crossovers, and are just fed full range signal either in a tweeter incorporated in the main speaker, in the middle, or a separate tweeter. They just rely on the fact the speaker can only do certain frequencies well and leave it to do the stuff it can't do as you can't hear it anyway.... This is where you come in with your proposals. Step one is you add a tweeter AND a crossover into your defender system. That tweeter and crossover will still be running from headunit power. The cross over splits the signal so that the high frequencies go to the tweeter, and the rest all go to the larger speaker. This is normally called a component set up. Its better than both the above because it splits the frequencies and the tweeter is good at reproducing the highs, and the main speaker the lows. Makes it all clearer. But you won't get much more bass. Just a bit more quality. Improvement made. Most will be happy here. But then you turn it up. And again you correctly identify that the volume doesn't now go high enough for you because you're driving two speakers from the same power. So you need more power. And by the way, that bigger speaker isn't driving the bass you want. Bass comes later. So you need more power from somewhere. That comes from an "external" amplifier. In this set-up, you feed the amplifier outside the headunit with a signal level feed, from the headunit. As a comparison - it's the same level of feed that comes out your smart phone headphone socket. You can connect headphones to an RCA output on a headunit and listen to the music the same way as you can on an iPhone. The much bigger amplifier receives that signal, and now feeds the component speakers with the main signal being provided by the headunit (via, ironically, normally your iPhone anyway - it just sits in the middle!), the power being provided by the amplifier, and the sound coming from those two speakers we mentioned. Great. Now it goes loud, and that treble has some much better quality. But you've still got no window shattering bass. Simple - you've just added an amplifier to the system. There's more to it than this but amplifiers can then drive subs. Critically - headunits cannot drive subs. There's not enough power in there. So you fit your sub in the back, connect it up to the amplifier, and the amp now drives the speakers, and the sub (in the case of most 4 channel amps anyway - 2 channels are bridged to run the sub, and the other two run the main speakers via the cross-over). Sounds awesome now. Got bass, and got quality and high end. The variations are many and confusing, but the main ones are: # The sub on the back of a cubby solution. This is where you run a set of signal cables from the headunit direct to a box on the back of the cubby which houses both a small sub-woofer, and a small amplifier. The amp only does the small sub, so you get some additional bottom end, and the head unit drives the component speakers still. Great solution in a defender for normal use. Many have it. # The "oh my god i love ICE" solution. (I and a few others in this thread are infected with this problem) Amps. Loads of them. So by the time you have a real liking for bass and top end and... well it's as bad as defenders. Combine the two and you'll never get a spare minute again, but amplifiers are like speakers too in that they're only normally good at one thing. So you'll find a sub will perform better on a single channel sub focused amplifier with a "frequency splitter" (low pass filter basically - only the lows go to the sub) as it will get all the power focused on it's single speaker, the architecture of the amp is set up that way. Then you'll need another amp to do the front speakers because you can tune that amp to have a frequency split that suits the components you've put in the front. And finally - don't forget the rears. A third one then does the rears because that then has a slightly revised level of tune that suits the nomally slightly larger speakers in the rear. And off you go..... neons, Southend sea front, competitions, group dispersal orders, M25 at 75mph in a defender with your ears bleeding from both the sonic capability of your system and the engine and tyre noise.... world is your oyster. There's any number of possibilities in the middle. But thats the basics  |
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6th Mar 2020 3:54pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20451
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Also the head unit is best seen as a signal source rather than a power output. Yes, it can output power but very little compared to an Amp. Typically HU output is 20wrms per Chanel aka each speaker and that would power a low power 10 or 13cm speaker only and most aftermarket speakers are well over that so imminent death if the HU and over heat stress is likely. It can manage standard fit LR speakers or an aftermarket swap for similar size so long as power requirement is low.
Itโs best really to use the HU as a clean RCA signal source really. If you want quick easy fit bass Iโd look at the 8โ and new 10โ Kicker hideaway, you still have wiring though and certainly isnโt cheap by any means! But yes, HU in-built amplifiers are only designed for low wattage channels only as a supply in its self. Many manufacturers wonโt quote output either or quote peak only which is a max wattage figure only just to complicate things.. No Guts, No Glory. ๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช |
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6th Mar 2020 4:08pm |
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| Dowks Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Surrey Posts: 121 
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My contribution to the thread. Recently did a big upgrade on my 130
Audison APF8.9Bit Audison Forza Hertz Mille Legend tweeter Hertz Mille Pro midbass Hertz Mille Pro midrange Twin Audsin ASP10's in seat box Plus Double Din and Sony CarPlay headunit. DSP really helps to create a fantastic sound Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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24th Jan 2021 9:41am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3316
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Love a tidy install. Very nice work mate. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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24th Jan 2021 9:44am |
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| Dowks Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Surrey Posts: 121
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I would love to take credit but the work was done by Studio Incar in Fareham. I am very pleased with the sound and the quality of the install
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24th Jan 2021 9:16pm |
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