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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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I'd like your opinion more if it was backed up by references/sources for your facts...
By way of a counterpoint to your 1st point:
The US as an example, and one of the top producers of CO2:  Click image to enlarge Read the facts behind this and why tackling transport is NOT moving the problem when the production of more electricity is not based on coal as you suggest it is. https://www.vox.com/2016/6/13/11911798/emi...sportation |
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17th Dec 2019 8:16am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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I was refrencing global Electricity production, not country by country as was made clear by my example of France, which like the US has a high level of Nuclear produced electricity, albeit US electrical production is still 40% coal versus 20% nuclear.
Click image to enlarge But chinese electrical production accounts for 40% of global emissions and is still 70% coal. What's more, it's increasing the number of coal power stations it is building/coming on line as you can see by the map below. Click image to enlarge https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants India has a huge reliance on coal-produced electricity, indeed it is the third largest user after China/US and 60% of Russia's electricity (fourth largest consumer) is still coal fired. Finally, Africa, is actually in the process of building 100 new coal-power plants. So well over half the world's population relies on coal-fired electricity and they don't give a mutt's nuts about global warming. So coal is not going away, it is getting worse, as long as you are outside the comfort of the advanced/wealthy/motivated European economic area.
As I said, global warming is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed. But, we in the West have the luxury of doing so, the rest of the world doesn't. But forcing change through 'fashion' earlier than necessary, rather than through natural wastage (i.e. replacing a car when the car has reached the end of its natural life), so as not to place a burden on the world's resources, is not, IMHO, the way to go. It is a drop in the ocean, globally speaking, and production of electric cars increases the use of the world's natrual resources, and in some cases the usage of those cars adds to the problem because CO2 emissions from a coal power station relative to a diesel, per KM of usage, is worse over the lifetime of a car. And there are people far more intelligent and experienced than me saying so. https://interestingengineering.com/a-tesla...study-says My comments aren't about not doing anything at all. They are based in pragmatism and my belief that buying/driving electric is not some kind of global-warming solving magic bullet and that many drivers in the West are feeling falsely virtuous if we simply ignore where that electricity production comes from, notably outside our (Europe's) priviledged position in world economics. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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17th Dec 2019 9:18am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Good to have the debate. |
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17th Dec 2019 9:37am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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Always
 Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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17th Dec 2019 9:38am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I believe it's false to look at sources of electricity if the end user cannot access that electricity, e.g. a car buyer in the US cannot get his electricity from India. So the global position has to be broken down into electricity markets. The US makes an easy reference point. And to show how things are moving from your 2014 figures, the improvement at 2018 is: Coal 27.5% down from 40% Renewables 16.9% up from 13.2% https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 And look at the curve on this graph: Click image to enlarge These changes have reduced CO2 production in the energy production sector, it seems its a double benefit when this electricity is then used to offset CO2 production in the transport sector via electric vehicles. I struggle to see the fashion argument - "earlier than necessary", clearly doesn't refer to situation with the environment; and in terms of people swapping out vehicles early, isn't that down to the pcp type financing models where after 2 or 3 years the contract is up and you are into a new car at the same monthly price? Sure there's more to be done in the rest of the world but that only makes the contribution the west can make even more important, both in terms of leadership, technology development and absolute volume. Indian coal consumption should be put into context, it's dwarfed by the actual drop in consumption in China in recent years: Click image to enlarge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_...A_data.png
Hardly a fact, when for instance "some 300 million Indians—a quarter of the population—have no electricity at all. Nearly as many have only intermittent access to it. Most of these people use kerosene for lighting and cook their food on wood or dung fires. The smoke kills about 1.3 million Indians a year, according to the World Health Organization." https://www.wired.com/2015/11/climate-change-in-india/ "India has shelved or cancelled nearly 550 thermal coal projects in the past seven years," https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun...into-shade |
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17th Dec 2019 10:17am |
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| kallito Member Since: 21 Nov 2019 Location: Velturno Posts: 50  
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something will change, sooner or later, if we like it or not.
going electric will be the way to go, but I agree it is too early for the "normal man". I've worked as a teacher (maths and physics plus other stuff) and was once asked to calculate the advantages (energy-wise) of wind mills fuel efficient "green" cars bulbs you name it together with my class as a project. at the time being I had my little FIAT 500 from 1970 and a 1953 Citroën CV11 Traction Avant. So I started gathering information about where the energy comes from and its environmental impact as well as how much energy and fresh water it takes to build cars. I took my thirsty car from 1953 as a reference and compared it with a mid-size saloon car that "only" drinks 7-8 l/100km against 12-15 l/100km money wise: depends on countries and their taxes, fuel prices, annual km's etc. energy wise: I should have had to keep the new mid-size saloon for 30+ years in order to justify building it and which modern car lasts more than 30 years / which modern car do you want to keep that long?? 
for the wind mills: they should be running about 12 years in order to reach the point where the invested energy has come back again, not calculating energy spent on replacement parts or repairs If you are looking for a replacement for your car (and you want a new one) you might consider going electric if range/price/size etc. suit your needs. In fact, there are two kind of comparisons: the one above - should you scrap your old car even if it is running and buy a new one? would that be environmentally friendly? and then comparing combustion engine and electric cars being built from scratch. there I saw a good explanation on youtube from "Engineering Explained" In that video the electric car won when taking into consideration all factors: production, running etc. conclusion for me: 1. just because it says environmentally friendly does not mean it is 2. so I should sit in a small electric sh*t box and be happy because I saved the planet just because other people want to decide for me what I should spend my money on? 3. mostly it's not green, but of interest for economy and politics. politicians and "powerful" people: they created the crisis -> we should invest our money in repairing the country? they did not care about environment before? paying fines costs less than fixing the problem at the source and now I should stop driving my beloved cars and bikes? In Italy we say: it's easy to be gay with somebody else's ar5e... so I ask myself how much of that green movement is just industrial financial interests being pushed forward with a GREEN flag on that note: I still miss the warm light coming from the old bulbs at home. Click image to enlarge about the picture: I had to modify it so the owner can't claim copyrights.... only reason, I swear
about that girl in the picture: if you're upset I used her picture and you really like what she's doing, then you should not be on this forum reading and typing text or just liking/sharing her thoughts in Instagram, Fakesbooks, Tweeter, etc. you should be out there on the streets fighting for your rights! "Don't drink and drive. You might spill your drink." |
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17th Dec 2019 10:18am |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 812 
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I wouldn't want anyone to feel he/she shouldn't be on this forum, just because they hold differing views!
I don't think this forum has an official view on anything. It's great to have friendly debate and it's quite right to question everything, particularly things read on the internet! |
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17th Dec 2019 11:00am |
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| kallito Member Since: 21 Nov 2019 Location: Velturno Posts: 50
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That feeling was not my intent at all
I meant that “she” would want “you” on the streets fighting for rights instead of typing on forums or social media So everyone is free of expressing their thoughts here! "Don't drink and drive. You might spill your drink." |
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17th Dec 2019 11:06am |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 812
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I see that Kallito
Unfortunate word spacing.... |
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17th Dec 2019 11:09am |
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| kallito Member Since: 21 Nov 2019 Location: Velturno Posts: 50
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Thanks for making me notice!
In the gray mass keeping my ears apart it sounded clear and sound  "Don't drink and drive. You might spill your drink." |
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17th Dec 2019 11:28am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Thanks for mansplaining Greta for me... 🤔 |
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17th Dec 2019 11:34am |
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| kallito Member Since: 21 Nov 2019 Location: Velturno Posts: 50
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Supacat
Now I don’t know how you mean it?  "Don't drink and drive. You might spill your drink." |
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17th Dec 2019 11:46am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Apologies... should have added a
Renewable energy has surpassed gas to become the UK's largest source of electricity generation "The proportion of the UK’s power generation mix made up by fossil fuels has fallen to a record low after renewable energy became the UK’s largest source of electricity. Government figures showed the UK relied on renewables, such as wind and solar, for 38.9% of its electricity in the third quarter of this year, up from one-third in the same period in 2018. Renewable energy moved narrowly ahead of gas-fired power, which made up 38.8% of the electricity mix, to emerge as the UK’s biggest source of power." https://www.theguardian.com/environment/20...data-shows Although, this puzzles me ~ is it actually true? " The wind power highs meant thousands of homes were paid to plug in their electric vehicles overnight and set their dishwashers on timers for the early hours of the morning to make use of the extra energy." Another school day... answering myself: " Octopus told its customers ahead of time that it would pay up to 5.6p for every kilowatt-hour of electricity used in certain overnight periods." https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/...dy-weekend |
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19th Dec 2019 7:56am |
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| Tommo Member Since: 19 Dec 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 830 
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So my take on the world:
So we need to get rid of plastics, become much better at recycling and plant many more trees and stop polluting waterways, Probably eat less meat and use fresh products in our food rather than the tasteless crap that is known as fast food. We also need to get real on the false belief that batteries are the way forward, This is a con and is as environmentally damaging as the current combustion engine thanks for reading...im now going to make sure my oil central heating comes on, and also put on the log burner to pollute someone!! |
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20th Dec 2019 3:18pm |
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