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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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Happy to share.
I'm interested to see if other network charging providers follow suit or whether competition will see a fall in demand for this provider and then either they fail or re-adjust their charging costs. |
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18th Jan 2020 9:07am |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2166 
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most of the "free" local council provided ones around here now charge but no idea of costs involved
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18th Jan 2020 9:34am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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I have some knowledge of this through a work project. The approach of my local council is that charging points within existing car parks are free, the cost being absorbed within the fee for parking. The number of points is limited at the moment, as there just isn't the demand yet. There's been much discussion about disabled access, which is seen as a growth area for EV ownership. Because of the limited number of charging points that will be available initially, the compromise is likely to be that their spaces are designed to disabled parking standards but without the blue badge designation. This will change as demand increases, though. It's also thought that there's likely to be a tipping point where it becomes necessary to fit chargers to every space to avoid people fighting over them, which will come a lot sooner than widespread take-up of EV themselves. The capacity of the incoming main is a significant issue in some locations, though.
Where new parking is being constructed, about 10% of spaces are being provided with charging points but infrastructure is being included for more that can be added as demand increases. Typical costs are around £3k for a medium rate charge point in the 6-7kw range but up to £20k for a high capacity super charger, so re-couping the cost is a bit of a long game at the moment. Charging points in public locations are likely to be a tap and pay system, with different rates for different charging speeds. Current thoughts are charges of about 70p/hr, which will equate to around £8 to fully charge something the size of a Nissan Leaf. About 50% of that cost goes to the council with the rest to the operator. What is clear though, is that the technology for metered charging is still in its' infancy. There are several competing systems available, which are currently being explored, each with their pro's and con's in terms of cost, easy of use and flexibility. It's a brave new world. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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18th Jan 2020 10:38am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Extreme E (@ExtremeELive) Tweeted: Because who's better to prove that electric can be extreme than Ken Block, right?! #ExtremeE https://t.co/7vA4p79m0A https://twitter.com/ExtremeELive/status/1219285914297556995?s=20 |
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21st Jan 2020 4:38pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Rather a decent articulation of the current position :
"This is not, I now realise, an ideal time to have to replace your car. In fact, it is rotten timing since the entire auto industry is at one of those inflection points where almost any purchase is going to be a mistake. Petrol, hybrid, electric: each is replete with pitfalls. These are dilemmas not seen since the late 1880s, when people sat around trying to decide between a Benz Patent-Motorwagen and a new horse. (The consumer affairs magazine Which Nag? was still recommending horses well into the 1900s as a natural alternative to the Ford Model T, leaving many riders frustrated as the number of charging points for horses dwindled.) The obvious solution would seem to be to buy an electric car — but the even more obvious solution is to buy an electric car in five years’ time. Electric is the clear way to go, but buy too early and I’m stuck with a car I daren’t drive distances, that takes too long to recharge and with an early version of something that will improve significantly in cost, range and quality over the next few years. In five years, this would be a no-brainer — but in five years I’ll be five years too late to wherever I’ve got to get to next weekend. People keep telling me how quickly you can recharge a car these days. Apparently, it can take as little as 30 minutes with the superfast equipment (and a mere three to four hours with more ordinary kit). That’s great if you are shopping and have found one of the two charging points on the high street but you wouldn’t want to spend that kind of time at a petrol station. Half an hour at a petrol station is almost a death sentence. Do you have any idea how many Mars bars I can get through in that time? So the smart move would be to sit tight. My car is still running tolerably well and I quite like the fact that it already has enough dents to make me less stressed about driving in London. The problem is that it is a diesel car and, from next year, the Mayor of London is going to start taxing me just to move it out of the driveway. I could allow myself to be persuaded into investing early in the government’s promise to supercharge the electric-car infrastructure. But then I bought the diesel because I was persuaded by an earlier government policy that favoured them as more environmentally friendly on the grounds of their greater fuel efficiency. No wonder the auto industry is struggling. No sane person would buy a new or newish car now. Consider the options. I could go for another petrol engine but the green agenda means that they will soon be facing the same sort of punitive penalties ;as the diesels. I could be an early adopter of an electric car but it will be a monumental nuisance for a while and then, in three years’ time, I’ll watch all the newly improved models which I won’t be driving myself. It is worse than getting a new iPhone: you just know there will be a better one within 10 months. I am fortunate enough to have the option of fitting a charging station outside the house but that’s at least another £500 and my wife may not look kindly upon being made to relinquish the driveway. As for hybrids, they feel like the PalmPilot of motoring, a short-term fix to get you from Filofaxes to smartphones. You cannot convert a hybrid to a full electric so, in the end, you are still stuck with what is a petrol car once the highways go fully electric. If you were guaranteed to enjoy 20 years unimpeded motoring without some new fossil-fuel charge for those wishing to refuel at London’s one remaining gas station, they might be an option. But right now they look too much like a temporary solution. Which leaves only one option: a cheap, second-hand petrol car, clean enough to avoid the Ultra Low Emission Zone pollution charge for a couple of years but cheap enough for me not to have to worry about ditching it as soon as the electric infrastructure is in place. So it’s going to have to be a new, old, not-too-green-but-not-too-not-green car and, ideally, not too soon but soon enough. This is the problem with the almost tangible future; the lead-in times are a killer." https://www.ft.com/content/a60919e6-3caf-11ea-b232-000f4477fbca |
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24th Jan 2020 7:55am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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Maybe if car makers were less greedy and reduced their margins by say 50% then they might sell a few more cars regardless of the means of propulsion............. a New Defender 110 HSE for say £40k on the road ........ I know pigs stand a greater chance of flying! I remember reading a couple of years ago that an L405 costs around £35000 to build/ assemble yet costs more than double that in the showroom...... also thanks to all the VW bits raided from their parts bin Porsche makes a Cayenne for around £29000 a vehicle. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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24th Jan 2020 1:16pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4216 
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I agree with the view quoted in Supacat's post above. I watched this video with an electric JLR product and the frustration of trying to charge it away from home. Now Harry Metcalfe is usually very positive about JLR products as he has consulted for SVR in the past and owns a lot of their products, so it must truly be bad for him to put this out. Basically, if can't afford a Tesla, don't bother with anything else at moment.
2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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24th Jan 2020 2:00pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 812 
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I watched that Harry's Garage and it really does highlight how smart Tesla have been to provide decent infrastructure for their cars, and therefore just how dumb the other car companies are continuing to be for not doing the same!
(Or the cynic might suggest this is entirely on purpose to slow down the take-up of BEVs until they have shifted all their fossil cars). |
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24th Jan 2020 3:33pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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I have a PHEV, love it, and I can do most of my journies on its short electric range in purely electric mode,one thing he was lucky not to encounter was an ICE’d charging point - some idiot in a fossil fuelled car parked on the only charging point because they think it’s free parking.......... well in most places I charge you might not pay for the charge up but you still have to pay the parking fee. The other infuriating thing......... people who have an electric car and park it all day on a charger when they only need an hour to Fully charge their car........... I would go fully electric and am considering a BEV but as he states until the car makers and the charger owners get their apps and charging sockets sorted out there is on one marque of BEV to buy, even though I would love a very expensive Austrian built I Pace, it might have to be an American Tesla 3. Living in Scotland chargers are a bit easier to pay on as most are run by Charge-point Scotland and you pay £20 a year for as much charging as you can use although on the motorways you do have to reduce yourself to Polar or Eco-tricity and their 90% of the time not working slow chargers. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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24th Jan 2020 5:37pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 592
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Trying to own a BEV and rely on public infrastructure would be a real challenge it's not ready yet. I jumped onto the BEV bandwagon 5 years ago and wouldn't look back but its our secondary car not our primary. I'm lucky to be able to charge it at 32amps on my drive with a tethered charger so it gets treated like a mobile phone and plugged in when its parked up. Don't hardly look at or consider the battery charge as its almost always back at 100% within an hour or so of being at home. I do use some public chargers in sheffield, they are getting very busy and you have to (or i do) be able to nip out from the office when charged to move it to free the charger for others. We all park up and stretch cables over to the charge point sometimes so when one person goes they can plug someone else in. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten Last edited by RDR on 24th Jan 2020 10:27pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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24th Jan 2020 6:34pm |
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| mrd1990 Member Since: 16 Aug 2012 Location: Wales Posts: 600  
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Fascinating numbers for that electric defender ...
If the 24Kwh battery pack gets 60 miles, that is 2.5 Miles per kWh. A Tesla gets 3.5Miles per kWh, that makes Tesla around 40% more efficient, which is not as much as I was expecting. On general costs... A 5.3kWh Tesla pack is $1,580.00 To get the same range as a Td5 on a full tank, you will need 27 tesla packs which is $42,660 USD or £32,622 +VAT All the other bits inc Tesla motor would come in at around £20k - £60k in parts all in.  |
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24th Jan 2020 9:56pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 592
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I follow fully charged they did this review of a range rover conversion which is nice
110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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24th Jan 2020 10:29pm |
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| Mike c Member Since: 11 Aug 2017 Location: Maldon, Essex Posts: 930  
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Expected range isn't bad either, great conversion, though great shame to lose the v8 in a way.
I would certainly consider it once its affordable/necessary in order to keep driving my Defender. |
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25th Jan 2020 4:09pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Click image to enlarge Electric Classic Cars (@elecclassiccars) Tweeted: Good things come in 3, like these Land Rover Defender air boxes, now converted to electric heat. 🤘⚡🤘 #electriclandrover #electricdefender https://t.co/8nk5yTDZuH https://twitter.com/elecclassiccars/status...97985?s=20 and Click image to enlarge Electric Classic Cars (@elecclassiccars) Tweeted: No more diesel for this beasty. 😁⚡👍 #electriclandrover #electricdefender https://t.co/lSKKPiGqhP https://twitter.com/elecclassiccars/status...97120?s=20 |
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26th Jan 2020 7:06am |
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