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Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

leeds wrote:
I am sure that Paul at Hogarth Engineering has been making the Patriot ladders for long enough to know that they are legal.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a completely meaningless statement.

I've shown you an actual MOT statement that shows an MOT failure.

Didn't you used to be a scientist? Isn't the MOT refusal empirical evidence.

leeds wrote:
Conclusion?

Either not the correct Patriot or other make of ladder, something else obstructing the number plate or a MOT tester who does not know the regulations! Take your pick.

Whilst it appears to be a really inconvenient truth to someone with a commercial interest in selling it, the MOT statement above refers to a genuine Patriot ladder of the type you link to on your earlier post; and the tester was not wrong.

Not my vehicle but you can see what the issue is...

I believe discomog has hit the nail on the head, ANPR cameras and instructions to mot testers to be more rigorous in applying the rules.

If this is your response to a customer that buys said item from you and suffers a similar fate, then it speaks volumes for your level of customer service. Buyer beware of dealing with suppliers who think the above is a suitable response.

Last edited by Supacat on 23rd Mar 2018 7:13am. Edited 3 times in total

22nd Mar 2018 6:39pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Laurie wrote:
Cannot the numberplate be moved to the other side?

No - it's fitted on a double cab and the other side has a straight legged ladder so would actually be even worse. Both ladders are needed to carry the weight back to the rear crossmember.

22nd Mar 2018 6:42pm

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8581

We have personally had a 110 fitted with Patriot roofrack and ladder fitted go through the MOT without comment from the tester.

Many other people have their vehicles fitted with Patriot racks and ladders go through the MOT without issue.

Now I can think of other companies who make and sell this type of ladder without issue.

Now talking about evidence that MOT certificate shows failure due to obstruction of the rear number plate. There is no evidence that a Patriot ladder is involved!

Now the section of the MOT testers manual is section 6.3 and possible reason for rejection include

Quote:

faded, dirty, delaminated, deteriorated or obscured, (for example by a towbar) so that it is likely to be misread or is not easily legible by a person standing approximately 20 metres to the front/rear of the vehicle.

That is down to interpretation by the tester and down to the MOT tester eyesight/judgement.

Now if people would like to contact the manufacturers I suggest they email them at sales@patriotproducts.co.uk.

Brendan

22nd Mar 2018 6:59pm

X4SKP

Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2295

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Supacat wrote:
What if I told you that would get you an MOT fail:

More proof...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic60543.html SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

22nd Mar 2018 7:19pm

discomog

Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2527

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

See this from 90roy posted today:-

home/tdi

Brake fluid warning light - MOT failure

Hi,
Hoping you guys can help. The truck failed on 2 things
1. Rear ladder obscuring the number plate (it's been on there 4 years and they only just mention it now.... Wtf? - anyway sorted as I removed the ladder... Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8

22nd Mar 2018 7:49pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

So, given this new found fervour amongst MOT inspectors across the country, is something like the Frontrunner offering the only acceptable approach? The top half of that is ok, apart from the need to drill holes, but the bottom step is a bit rubbish. Perhaps somebody will come up with a folding version based on the top part of the FR design

Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

22nd Mar 2018 8:01pm

RoddyK05

Member Since: 08 Apr 2015
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 633

Good old Brownchurch have a ladder that bends round the sides of the number plate. I purchased mine with the rack, but I think it can be bought separately. Not sure how much they are, but it holds my hefty weight so I can vouch for its strength.

22nd Mar 2018 8:23pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

Do you mean this one?

The problem is it's now difficult to know which of these types are likely to upset some random MOT tester

Plus that one requires the body to be drilled. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

22nd Mar 2018 8:53pm

Badger110

Member Since: 06 Feb 2018
Location: South hams
Posts: 1039

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Buckingham Blue

If it obscures the number plate in anyway then it's a possibilty it'll fail, If you go for one that doesn't obscure the number plate, then you'll have nothing to worry about.

Simples

22nd Mar 2018 9:18pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

Except that the choice appears to be very limited and I'm not keen on the one suggested so far, so not that simples. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

22nd Mar 2018 9:27pm

L110CDL

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10756

^^^ What about getting one made to your spec's, just a thought

1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up.

Keeper.

Clayton.

22nd Mar 2018 9:54pm

RoddyK05

Member Since: 08 Apr 2015
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 633

That’s very similar to mine, except mines doesn’t bolt through the roof - it bolts to the lugs on the back of the Brownchurch rack. If nothing available suits, could you not buy the one that ticks most boxes and have it altered by a blacksmith? I can’t see it being too difficult if like mine it’s simple galvanised steel?

22nd Mar 2018 10:00pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

X4SKP wrote:
Supacat wrote:
What if I told you that would get you an MOT fail:

More proof...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic60543.html

Except this vendor wouldn't recognise proof if it bit him on the backside.

It seems the first casualties of having a commercial interest are common sense and truth.

23rd Mar 2018 6:29am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

leeds wrote:
We have personally had a 110 fitted with Patriot roofrack and ladder fitted go through the MOT without comment from the tester.

Many other people have their vehicles fitted with Patriot racks and ladders go through the MOT without issue

So as long as you can continue to make a profit, you are happy for your customers to play russian roulette with having a road legal vehicle?

Should it not be the case that ALL vehicles with Patriot racks and ladders go through the MOT without issue?

If any fail then there is an issue. I'd ask everyone to look at this photo again and ask themselves the question is the number plate obstructed?

leeds wrote:
Now talking about evidence that MOT certificate shows failure due to obstruction of the rear number plate. There is no evidence that a Patriot ladder is involved!

Put your money where your mouth is.

If the above MOT failure I have posted was down to any other reason than the fitting of a Patriot ladder I will give £250 to a charity of your choice. Equally, if this is not the case you give £250 to a charity of my choice.

I did not blank out the name of where the MOT was conducted - indeed it was a LR main dealer not far from you. Ring them up and ask, or if they won't give details to you, I'm happy to meet you there in person and get you the answer. If the latter, I will expect an apology as well as the £250 for my charity.

You are big on the weasel words so lets just get this done

leeds wrote:
Now if people would like to contact the manufacturers I suggest they email them at sales@patriotproducts.co.uk.

So now you are looking to hide behind the skirt of the manufacturer?

Maybe that isn't surprising given your apparent ignorance of the law on such matters and how they apply to the products you sell:

leeds wrote:
They all appear to go around the number plate so I am guessing that is a legal requirement

What are your legal responsibilities as the seller? Or are those laws, like other laws inconvenient to your commercial interests, apparently superceded as well?

23rd Mar 2018 7:08am

Martin
Site Admin

Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6605

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

I can't say I'm happy with the tone of this conversation and the use of the public forum to carry it out.

Can I suggest it's taken into a private channel rather than dragging it all out in public in an increasingly bitter manner?

1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top

2015 D90 XS SW

23rd Mar 2018 7:19am

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