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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195  
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Something for people to keep an eagle eye out for as its consequences can be a bit dangerous.
Typically we had just had some new concrete laid in our drive and the very first time I park the 90 on it it leaves the Soulihull calling card, a puddle of oil. As it was N/S front I instantly assumed swivel seal and ignored it for a while. When I stuck my head under it lo and behold dry seal, the oil looked like it was coming from the swivel bolted joint. Nothing new here I have had this problem when we used to race the Bowler, stretched bolts that soon snapped if tightened up to much. Showed them a spanner and they were all tight, strange. Further closer and a wire brush inspection showed the weld next to the swivel flange perfectly cracked right down the middle and leaking. I cleaned it up and tried my best to mig weld it, but access from under the car was terrible and all I got was some good strong spot welds across the cracked weld, bit of silicon all fine. 6 thousand miles later on my way home Friday my steering started to pull left inspection showed the weld had now fully split and opened up. Drastic surgery was required. As said above access to weld it under the car is crap due to the radius arms and bolts, underhand welding ect, so axle had to come out to get proper access.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Once ground out it took a 2 ton chain pull round the swivels to close the gap back up, the camber angle would have been interesting if I had left it like that. Job took me about 8 hrs axle out weld it up and back in, then I still had to give it a 232thou service and change the o2 sensor, deep joy way of spending a Sunday at home. Keeping a close eye on it now, I hit it hard with my mig and got some good welds and lots of welds on it but its always in the back of the mind or will be for a few weeks, wince every time I hit a big pot hole. Inspect your axle welds the metal is very thin these days. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough. Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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11th Jul 2017 9:32pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7905  
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Thanks for the heads up 👆 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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11th Jul 2017 9:37pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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There's a recall for this, widely discussed on the forum. Did you miss it?
The recall involves a new axle if cracked, and a feeble bracket to stop the swivel housing parting company completely with the vehicle on uncracked vehicles in the affected range. Apparently losing the wheel and swivel housing assembly will result in "vehicle stability becoming compromised" according the LR. No mention of the laundry bill which will result! See http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic33029.html |
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11th Jul 2017 9:47pm |
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And you still drove it? | noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195
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When I say good strong spot welds I mean good strong spot welds, my mig back in the 90's was the largest you could get on 240 volt. I was more than happy at the time, but there is a lot of force concentrated in that area between the swivel and radius arm. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.
Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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11th Jul 2017 10:05pm |
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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195
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Ohhh I am annoyed I asked my Land rover dealer about this specifically Saturday morning answer was " nope never heard of front axle weld problems "  If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.
Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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11th Jul 2017 10:07pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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They can't have been that strong. 
I'd be going back to them and have another go at them, with luck they'll atleast give you some of the renforcing brackets. They'd probably not entertain swapping the cracked axle casing now you've welded it mind you. But why not try and get a new one anyway? |
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11th Jul 2017 10:15pm |
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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195
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Ohhh its my first call in the morning I can assure you, bloody furious with myself that I had not checked the forum about this problem in the first place, just thought mine was old and running heavy all the time on
 roads. Obviously not. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.
Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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11th Jul 2017 10:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372
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This was such a serious fault it is one of the few times that LR has actually recalled vehicles (for most defects LR don't actually recall, they simply fix free if you ask them to). I would be asking LR why they didn't contact you by letter as the law requires, since you should be easy enough to find using the DVLA records.
If your VIN isn't in the affected range you wouldn't have been picked up, but since you clearly have the defect, in that case LR will need to extend the range and recall more vehicles. A recall programme like this should also never expire (unlike the service actions where there is a cut-off date). I would be asking LR for (a) a new axle, and (b) a rock-solid explanation of why you didn't get the recall notification, and (c) an explanation of why the dealer had never heard of it. If I recall correctly, something like 13 vehicles had suffered complete seperation and subsequent "reduction in vehicle stability" (no s**t Sherlock, the wheel's fallen off!) before the recall was started. I think that you have every right to contact LR with your "Mr Very Angry Indeed" hat on! Please keep us posted how you get on, and what their feeble excuse is. Last edited by blackwolf on 12th Jul 2017 5:52pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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12th Jul 2017 8:45am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372
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I have just reread all the paperwork associated with the recall, and this is in fact rather more interesting.
The recall was limited to 110 and 130 vehicles, and 90s were not included. Since your vehicle is (as far as i know) a 90, you would not have received the recall since you weren't actually included in it. The defect was supposedly exclusively limited to the weld quality of the left hand end flange of the axle case, there is no suggestion that the RH end was defective, although the reinforcing brackets were fitted to both ends. For vehicles in the affected VIN range and which were not displaying any signs of failure, the recall got you brackets in most cases and a new axle case (part number TAJ500090) only if you had heavy-duty suspension. The part number listed however is the same for all Defenders, regardless of wheelbase, and it rather begs the question how did LR know where the batch that was identified as having faulty welds actually went. Whilst it is likely that the failure you have suffered is largely down to the arduous use your 90 gets, the fact that the same failure has happened to a 90 does in my view indicate a need for a serious conversation with LR about whether the recall was adequate, or whther it should be extended to include 90s built at the time as well. You are not the only person to use a 90 in a tough job, it is designed for the purpose. I would also have no hesitation myself in mentioning to LR that if you don't get answers (and perhaps a new axle case - which costs about £1500, by the way) you will be having a conversation with the appropriate authorities concernign the thoroughness and adequacy of the recall. Good luck, and as I said above, please keep us updated! I am sure that there are 90 owners on here who are now peering at their axles and wondering if today is the day. Last edited by blackwolf on 12th Jul 2017 5:54pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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12th Jul 2017 9:11am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2641 
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I would suggest that your repair will have been better than anything Land Rover would have given you. You also now know it's been sorted and can drive in comfort of that knowledge.
Can't see any long-term benefit in going to Land Rover with it, life's too short. |
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12th Jul 2017 11:10am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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Well i disagree, while the weld might now well be good, how do we know the rest of the welds on the axle tube are sound? Land Rover should have fitted a new axle, their dealer should have been well aware of this problem and raised it with JLR as soon as it was mentioned. How many more are running around with the front hub about to part company? Where does the Defender go once it fails and the driver loses control? into a queue of school children? head on into your mums/brothers/daughters/wifes car? I think there is plenty of long term benefit in making sure JLR are aware of this issue.
Not to mention the 8 hours of his own time he's wasted when Land Rover should have sorted this. I would personally be expecting some compensation from them for that. This is only a 5 year old car, major assemblies like this shouldn't be failing. I wonder if "Peter Cockle Technical Director - Global Customer Service" (author of the recall document) is still there, maybe worth fring off an email to him and see if you get a reply. Keep the tone friendly and on the basis that you just want to make them aware of it. If you seem too threatening or demanding of compensation he might not reply as it'll get bogged down in the legal departments etc. |
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12th Jul 2017 12:01pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372
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This MUST be raised with Landrover, since it is possibly the first case of a Defender 90 suffering the same problem as was recalled for 110 and 130 vehicles. There are wide implications. It is exactly the same failure as was recalled for the larger vehicles, a failure of the weld at the left hand flange.
The clear implication is that there are potentially many Defender 90s on the roads which could suffer a similar failure. I have no doubt at all that the OP will already be raising it very adequately - I know that I would be. |
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12th Jul 2017 12:54pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641 
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does anyone know the part number for the brackets DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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12th Jul 2017 7:48pm |
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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195
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I have had a long day today and just got back to my computer, thanks for all your comments and yes I am a growly dog with a bone and will be chewing on this until I get a satisfactory reply.
Round 1 my dealer has replied by e-mail today with the you vehicle is not covered by the recall sorry. At this point I am surpossed to lick my wounds and say ok many thanks sorry for bothering you. No not happening Land Rover customer services is my first call at break tomorrow as I am on a training course otherwise it would have been first thing. Not a happy customer at the moment and as I said before wish I had checked the forum about this before I started repairs or it would have been put on a trailer and and I would have said sort this and rowed about money afterwards. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough. Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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12th Jul 2017 8:58pm |
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