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Al_Brown

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16

1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red

WIPAC LED relay, Dash Tell Tale, and Trailer light woes...

Hi all, I'm after some advice please.

I've done a few hours reading and also used the forums search function but to no specific avail. I am also a Chartered Engineer so I get the wiggly amps thing quite well but this is frustrating me!!!

I have an ex military 110 (89 plate). Lionel is getting a full restoration albeit rather slowly. He is now on the road and it's cosmetics next.
It previously had 2 electrical towing sockets.
I have fitted the WIPAC LED upgrade and relay.

I had to remove the dash lamp (bulbs grow in soil ☺️😆😝) as I was getting a trickle voltage to the opposing side indicators and lighting them up (dimly) when using the indicators. Hazards work fine. All works fine without the tell tale lamp in the dash. I had no trailer tell tale lamp indicating on the dash at all (towing or not).

I went to tow a trailer and had to faff running a temporary earth to get it back home with working indicators.

I have now REMOVED all of the towing connection wiring and returned it to standard, and checked both the rear earths and remade some.

I now have the following symptoms:
1. Trailer tell tale always on?
2. Can't run the tell tale indicator lamp in the dash.

I assume I still have a poor earth somewhere and that is causing the trickle voltage to the opposing indicators, so I'll be going through them and doing new earths and then the DIODE bodge (ahem) modification, if I can't get it to play properly.

My questions are:

Is the RDX relay the answer to all my problems? Will it sort the trailer tell tale and or allow me to run the indicator tell tale lamp too???
Are there any additional earth leads (I know about the transfer box one) to check or common weak points on the 110 loom?

Also my cancellation isn't working from the steering wheel to the indicators which compounds the issue!

Any advice appreciated!

10th May 2017 8:14pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

Mine is a Puma, but assume it is all the same. I had the RDX relay, but it failed within a few weeks. I couldn't wait while RDX messed about "testing" it to see if they agreed that it was broken so I just bought a Britpart LED one. I know, I know, but a man needs working indicators and my local place had one in stock!

The Britpart one has been pretty much perfect. It works correctly with no trailer connected, I.e, the trailer dash lamp never illuminates. With a trailer connected that has incandescent lights, it flashes the trailer dash lamp with the indicators as it should. With a trailer which has LED lamps, the indicators work fine but I don't get the trailer dash lamp, presumably not enough current to detect the trailer, which I expected to be the case. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

11th May 2017 6:03am

Al_Brown

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16

Thanks bluest.

I've gone and ordered the RDX relay anyway!

I'm concerned about finding all the earthing points now and getting everything sorted within the loom

11th May 2017 9:47am

Ramsay

Member Since: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Moffat, Dumfries & Galloway
Posts: 627

1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Auto Keswick Green

Mine need the RDX relay and a replacement dashboard lamp with resistance built into it to stop the opposite side lights coming on when you indicate.
Bolt on bits sell both but only seem to sell the dashboard lamp once you phone them to say you have a problem. 1995 Defender 110 CSW
1971 SIIA Lightweight

11th May 2017 11:54am

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20323

I've had the RDX one for a long time now and has been faultless, I'd imagine you had a duff one.

There should be one info on here regarding earth points and headers, there are quite a few.

Not having an operational dash light for trailer towing or buzzer is not legal I believe.

If fitted it must be working, One or the other. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

11th May 2017 12:17pm

foxyred

Member Since: 16 Jul 2016
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 227

1994 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Montalcino Red

You need the Led telltale dash light with resister

11th May 2017 6:22pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

custom90steve wrote:

Not having an operational dash light for trailer towing or buzzer is not legal I believe.
.

In practice this is the case on a Defender. Although on other more advanced cars (like a late Range Rover for example), the in built dash warning messages for bulb failure are acceptable.

11th May 2017 11:27pm

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4785

Does your warning panel have one warning light for both indicator directions? If so this is where the problem is. To solve it you either need a slightly later warning panel with separate warning lights for each direction or two diodes behind to stop the voltage being transferred to the other side

The trailer tell tale sensitivity is adjusted by the pot resistor on the top of the wipac resistor

2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

12th May 2017 7:14am

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4785

Here is a thread with a fix

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic51327....or+problem 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

12th May 2017 7:19am

Al_Brown

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16

grafty99 wrote:
Does your warning panel have one warning light for both indicator directions? If so this is where the problem is. To solve it you either need a slightly later warning panel with separate warning lights for each direction or two diodes behind to stop the voltage being transferred to the other side

The trailer tell tale sensitivity is adjusted by the pot resistor on the top of the wipac resistor

Thanks for the useful info! I only have one indicator tell tale on the dash, I didn't know there was a two lamp variant! Anyone got one for sale!!!!

The resistor on the WIPAC relay does the square root of F all....

I've remade all 4 corner earths from the loom, the TX box earth is good and the bulkhead earth under the bonnet is good too, but I've still got a trickle voltage through the LED indicators on the opposite side!

12th May 2017 9:26am

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4785

The thread I linked says that bolt on bits make a indicator warning lamp that solves the problem

12th May 2017 4:49pm

Al_Brown

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16

Thanks Grafty 👍🏻

So in summary:

1. LED lights can cause issues
2. Dash tell tale can link the opposite side indicators and allow them to flash. This can be fixed with a pair of diodes as per another thread, or the bolt on bits Led with resistor dash lamp. Or a separate dash tell tale for individual side indicators on later Defender variants.
3. The WIPAC relay did NOTHING for my Landy, the RDX one has cured the trailer light issues and the resistor works correctly, however the dash indicator tell tale still needs the above mod.
4. Remaking all the earths still did not cure the initial problem despite the theory suggesting otherwise.

Hope that helps someone in future! And thanks for the advice chaps!

13th May 2017 4:33pm

Al_Brown

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16

Did a bit more reading on the dash tell tale issue... the quote below is from another forum:

...am still trying to figure out a way to get the dash light to work for both sides i

A bi-polar LED will get around your problem.
http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-comp...-led-29359
Alternatively fit a full wave rectifier to the LED.
Either way the LED will illuminate regardless of polarity.

So...

Has anyone fitted a bipolar LED ? Seems like a very elegant solution?

14th May 2017 9:10am

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