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Al_Brown



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red
WIPAC LED relay, Dash Tell Tale, and Trailer light woes...
Hi all, I'm after some advice please.

I've done a few hours reading and also used the forums search function but to no specific avail. I am also a Chartered Engineer so I get the wiggly amps thing quite well but this is frustrating me!!!

I have an ex military 110 (89 plate). Lionel is getting a full restoration albeit rather slowly. He is now on the road and it's cosmetics next.
It previously had 2 electrical towing sockets.
I have fitted the WIPAC LED upgrade and relay.

I had to remove the dash lamp (bulbs grow in soil ☺️😆😝) as I was getting a trickle voltage to the opposing side indicators and lighting them up (dimly) when using the indicators. Hazards work fine. All works fine without the tell tale lamp in the dash. I had no trailer tell tale lamp indicating on the dash at all (towing or not).

I went to tow a trailer and had to faff running a temporary earth to get it back home with working indicators.

I have now REMOVED all of the towing connection wiring and returned it to standard, and checked both the rear earths and remade some.

I now have the following symptoms:
1. Trailer tell tale always on?
2. Can't run the tell tale indicator lamp in the dash.

I assume I still have a poor earth somewhere and that is causing the trickle voltage to the opposing indicators, so I'll be going through them and doing new earths and then the DIODE bodge (ahem) modification, if I can't get it to play properly.

My questions are:

Is the RDX relay the answer to all my problems? Will it sort the trailer tell tale and or allow me to run the indicator tell tale lamp too???
Are there any additional earth leads (I know about the transfer box one) to check or common weak points on the 110 loom?


Also my cancellation isn't working from the steering wheel to the indicators which compounds the issue!

Any advice appreciated!
Post #623228 10th May 2017 8:14pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4217
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Mine is a Puma, but assume it is all the same. I had the RDX relay, but it failed within a few weeks. I couldn't wait while RDX messed about "testing" it to see if they agreed that it was broken so I just bought a Britpart LED one. I know, I know, but a man needs working indicators and my local place had one in stock!

The Britpart one has been pretty much perfect. It works correctly with no trailer connected, I.e, the trailer dash lamp never illuminates. With a trailer connected that has incandescent lights, it flashes the trailer dash lamp with the indicators as it should. With a trailer which has LED lamps, the indicators work fine but I don't get the trailer dash lamp, presumably not enough current to detect the trailer, which I expected to be the case. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #623317 11th May 2017 6:03am
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Al_Brown



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red
Thanks bluest.

I've gone and ordered the RDX relay anyway!

I'm concerned about finding all the earthing points now and getting everything sorted within the loom
Post #623355 11th May 2017 9:47am
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Ramsay



Member Since: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Moffat, Dumfries & Galloway
Posts: 627
Scotland 1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Auto Keswick Green
Mine need the RDX relay and a replacement dashboard lamp with resistance built into it to stop the opposite side lights coming on when you indicate.
Bolt on bits sell both but only seem to sell the dashboard lamp once you phone them to say you have a problem. 1995 Defender 110 CSW
1971 SIIA Lightweight
Post #623378 11th May 2017 11:54am
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20453
United Kingdom 
I've had the RDX one for a long time now and has been faultless, I'd imagine you had a duff one. Thumbs Up

There should be one info on here regarding earth points and headers, there are quite a few.

Not having an operational dash light for trailer towing or buzzer is not legal I believe.

If fitted it must be working, One or the other. No Guts, No Glory.
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Post #623383 11th May 2017 12:17pm
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foxyred



Member Since: 16 Jul 2016
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 227
England 1994 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Montalcino Red
You need the Led telltale dash light with resister
Post #623465 11th May 2017 6:22pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
custom90steve wrote:


Not having an operational dash light for trailer towing or buzzer is not legal I believe.
.


In practice this is the case on a Defender. Although on other more advanced cars (like a late Range Rover for example), the in built dash warning messages for bulb failure are acceptable.
Post #623533 11th May 2017 11:27pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4786
United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Does your warning panel have one warning light for both indicator directions? If so this is where the problem is. To solve it you either need a slightly later warning panel with separate warning lights for each direction or two diodes behind to stop the voltage being transferred to the other side Thumbs Up

The trailer tell tale sensitivity is adjusted by the pot resistor on the top of the wipac resistor Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #623558 12th May 2017 7:14am
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4786
United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Here is a thread with a fix Thumbs Up

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic51327....or+problem 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #623559 12th May 2017 7:19am
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Al_Brown



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red
grafty99 wrote:
Does your warning panel have one warning light for both indicator directions? If so this is where the problem is. To solve it you either need a slightly later warning panel with separate warning lights for each direction or two diodes behind to stop the voltage being transferred to the other side Thumbs Up

The trailer tell tale sensitivity is adjusted by the pot resistor on the top of the wipac resistor Thumbs Up


Thanks for the useful info! I only have one indicator tell tale on the dash, I didn't know there was a two lamp variant! Anyone got one for sale!!!! Bow down

The resistor on the WIPAC relay does the square root of F all....

I've remade all 4 corner earths from the loom, the TX box earth is good and the bulkhead earth under the bonnet is good too, but I've still got a trickle voltage through the LED indicators on the opposite side!
Post #623578 12th May 2017 9:26am
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4786
United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
The thread I linked says that bolt on bits make a indicator warning lamp that solves the problem Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #623671 12th May 2017 4:49pm
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Al_Brown



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red
Thanks Grafty 👍🏻

Thumbs Up

So in summary:

1. LED lights can cause issues
2. Dash tell tale can link the opposite side indicators and allow them to flash. This can be fixed with a pair of diodes as per another thread, or the bolt on bits Led with resistor dash lamp. Or a separate dash tell tale for individual side indicators on later Defender variants.
3. The WIPAC relay did NOTHING for my Landy, the RDX one has cured the trailer light issues and the resistor works correctly, however the dash indicator tell tale still needs the above mod.
4. Remaking all the earths still did not cure the initial problem despite the theory suggesting otherwise.

Hope that helps someone in future! And thanks for the advice chaps!
Post #623870 13th May 2017 4:33pm
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Al_Brown



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: PLYMOUTH
Posts: 16
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Rutland Red
Did a bit more reading on the dash tell tale issue... the quote below is from another forum:

...am still trying to figure out a way to get the dash light to work for both sides i

A bi-polar LED will get around your problem.
http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-comp...-led-29359
Alternatively fit a full wave rectifier to the LED.
Either way the LED will illuminate regardless of polarity.

So...

Has anyone fitted a bipolar LED ? Seems like a very elegant solution?
Post #623999 14th May 2017 9:10am
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