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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20440  
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I am sure Blackwolf on here likely knows the answer to this one.
 $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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24th Feb 2017 11:43am |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210 
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Cheers Steve, that's what I was banking on, a bit presumptious on my part but he usually comes up with the goods....ha, ha.
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24th Feb 2017 12:00pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441 
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From memory I think that they are 3/8" UNF.
Edit - after re-reading your original post, can you be more specific about which holes/bolts you actually mean? The standard Puma diff has metric, Unified, and British Standard threads in different places, so it is hard to be specific without knowing exactly which threads you are referring to. If you mean the nuts/studs holding the pinion carrier to the axle tube, they're 3/8" UNF. If you man the two holes in the pad on the bottom of the pinion carrier (where the tie bar bracket bolts on the front diff), then they are 3/8" BSF. It is rather inexplicable how LR came to have so many different anachronistic threads on a single part! |
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24th Feb 2017 12:16pm |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210
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Thank you for your speedy reply Blackwolf.
The first bolts or more specifically the nuts are the ones (10 no. radially spaced) holding the front part of the diff to the main part of the rear diff casing. Two of these are removed in order to fit the top bracket. I tried an M10 bolt into one of those once removed and it wouldn't fit so I guessed it would perhaps be 3/8" but wasn't sure of the suffix designation. These are not the problem at the moment but it would be nice to know what they are? The other threads are the holes on the underside of the rear diff 'nose', flat faced surface, near the propshaft connection, again I tried an M10 which was supplied but it wasn't going to fit so didn't force the issue. These two holes are used to fix the bottom part of the diff guard. Apologies for my descriptions, I hope you get the gist of the bolts/nuts descriptions and their locations? Thanks again. |
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24th Feb 2017 12:49pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441
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OK, thje first ones you describe - the ten - technically hold the pinion carrier (what most people call "the diff") into the axle case, and they are 3/8" UNF.
The ones on the underside are 3/8" BSF. A 3/8 thread is marginally smaller in outside diameter than a 10mm thread, and both UNF and BSF are finer threads (more threads per inch) than normal M10 (which is an ISO coarse series thread). HTH |
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24th Feb 2017 1:24pm |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210
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Cheers Blackwolf, that all makes sense to me as the ones on the underside are definitely smaller than the M10 size provided.
I'll get a couple of 3/8" BSF bolts and try those. While I'm at the bolt place I'll pick up a couple of 3/8" UNF nuts to replace the rusty ones I'd removed then replaced. They go on well enough but are a little bit banged up and rusty. I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks again, take care. |
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24th Feb 2017 1:50pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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I think it's just where they've modifed the part over the years. the Whitworth stuff is probably bits that were designed in the late 40's, then as they've re-done bits in the 60's they used the then current UN threads and then later on when they reworked something they used the by then current Metric. As tooling as worn out it gets replaced with the then current stuff, so for an axle case they probably still had machines from the 50's drilling them! Like most UK factories, they're mostly ancient, those in mainland Europe are very different. Solihull is basically a 1930's Engine plant with bits tacked on to it. My mini's body was put together in a munitions plant from 1917! I do still like the fact most nuts and bolts on Defenders use a different size spanner for the nut than for the bolt. It seems daft, until you realise most tool kits only come with one spanner in each size, then it becomes genius. 
Most of the time you can get selection boxes of nuts, it's worth getting a selection box of UNF and UNC nyloc nuts in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" threads. |
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24th Feb 2017 2:15pm |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210
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Thanks ZSD, I'll keep an eye out for the selection nut box 👍
This is what I love about this site, I was quite confident there'd be help when help is needed. It's like a living and breathing Haynes manual for Defenders.....  |
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24th Feb 2017 5:28pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441
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Whilst I like your sentiment, I reckon that this site is far better than the current generation Haynes manuals.
Haynes manuals are not what they used to be, and, to be honest, I wouldn't bother with one nowadays (the genuine manual from superhero dgardel is the way to go). |
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24th Feb 2017 6:06pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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to be fair i think where cars have become more complex Haynes have given up trying to cover them in the detail they once did.
What i don't understand though is why they strip stuff out of manuals they've already published. As a rule of thumb the books with the cutaway drawing on the front and the title "Workshop manual", tend to be a lot better than the ones with the mildly cutaway CGI image and titled "repair manual". The factory manuals have always been a lot better than the Haynes books, the post 1990 factory manuals especially, it's just a shame JLR don't print them anymore. |
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24th Feb 2017 6:50pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441
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I came across a box of the Haynes manuals I had bought in my teens for the cars I had or worked on then, things like the Austin 1300GT (anyone remembers them? Not great cars but went like a bat out of hell when set up right!) and so on. I was astounded at how much more detail there was then.
Now anything that needs a special tool or a brain cell and they say it's a complex task requiring special tools and should be left to an expert, even stuff as simple as setting up a diff. I accept that as cars have become more bloated with technology there is less that Joe Home-Mechanic can do though. |
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24th Feb 2017 7:30pm |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210
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Re your last sentence Blackwolf, I was recently told by a guy who runs a local garage that Volvo have or are about to release a car with no bonnet catch, no access unless opened electronically by the main dealer. Washer refill is located in the boot area!
Then again I wonder what percentage of the driving public know where their bonnet release is anyway? |
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25th Feb 2017 10:19am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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To be fair anyone who passed their test in the past few years probably will. Doing basic under bonnet checks has been on the test for a few years now. |
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25th Feb 2017 10:50am |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210
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Ok folks update time, the guard is now fitted, I purchased a couple of 3/8" BSF bolts which were indeed the correct thread as Blackwolf said. The threads in the holes were rusted a bit but after cleaning out and using one of the bolts as a thread chaser I managed to get them to screw in properly. The original nuts on the diff casing have been reused as even though I bought some new 3/8" UNF nylon nuts, they didn't appear to want to thread on, and just in case I damaged the thread by forcing the nut I thought it best to just use the originals. Job done thank you for your support and advice.
This still begs the question regarding the guard itself though. Top plate didn't fit and had to be modified and M10 bolts were supplied to attach it to the underside of the pinion carrier? I have spoken to a local Independent outfit today as I was in the area and they told me the bolts should be 3/8" BSF without any hesitation, as per Blackwolfs advice! |
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27th Feb 2017 3:01pm |
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