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Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

The way the dealer explained it to me was that LR warranty need a printout from IDS along with a report to get a warranty authorisation to do the repair. There are guidelines that need to be followed and thats were the clashes with the dealer surface. Unfortunately unless you pay around £600 for a more advanced diagnostic, like the MSV-2 you dont seem to be able to get a cheap system that does both tested and untested DTC's. This confused the hell out of me when I first got the nanocom especially the codes disappearing! I know exactly were you are coming from in regards to diagnostic equipment, I have a scangauge, nanocom and a remap unit which show the same codes. I have learnt the hard way that I should now get a system which shows more detailed explanations for the faults shown. In nanocoms defence I store all the faults in the memory card and compare new ones with the old files and you do see a pattern of random faults mixed in with the more serious codes standing out with there repetition in being logged. Then when I went to the dealer I was fairly certain they would show as tested DTC's, which they did turn out to be TF, the result was a few repairs carried out and the problems have now gone.
I'm an amateur when it comes to diagnostics compared to the likes of Pete or anyone who does it for a living but would rather have the ability to keep an eye on my landy using this equipment than just rely on a dealer resetting them and saying nothings wrong with it. The more you get into it the more you start to understand when your landy starts throwing up repetitive codes. It is better in my view to go into the dealers with a firm idea in your mind to what you think is wrong with your landy that way the dealer has to convince you that your wrong and he is right and at the very least he will humour you and may even dig further to find the cause. BigRuss posted earlier that he was told by the dealer that there is a new Tech bulletin out to address the poor performance being experienced by owners so hopefully this will cure your problems.

14th Feb 2011 8:50pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

Its all about faults.

The returns are faults logged (just like every pc) but like you say it's about when it's a problem.

I would rather see all of them, than have them prescreened as actually you can star to see more faults. Mike

14th Feb 2011 9:04pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

The ability too see all faults is great Mike, its then having the ability to split them into tested and non tested DTC's which in my view would make the case for a dealer repair. After all if you know its logged as a tested DTC then you know it will show up on IDS meaning the fault would be repaired under warranty. The confusion is coming from having lots of DTC's and not knowing if they are tested or not? As I said you can monitor what comes and goes and after a while you will get to know which ones are showing all the time and therefore a problem to be addressed, where as others come and go and are less worrisome.

14th Feb 2011 9:22pm

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Montalcino Red

do you really think you will be able to tell the difference ?

i doubt it very much

i think the tuning will be pretty much the same ? imho

steve 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

15th Feb 2011 3:44pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Thought I would try and explain the differences in DTC codes. So here goes:

There are basically two types of DTC codes for OBDII Diagnostics:

Emissions related DTC's Tested DTC's
Type A

1. Emissions related.
2. The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will be illuminated as soon as the error occurs.
3. Stores a freeze frame DTC after one failed driving cycle.( history DTC is stored )

Type B

1. Emissions related.
2. Sets a Pending Trouble Code after one failed driving cycle.
3. Clears a Pending Trouble Code after one successful driving cycle.
4. Turns on the MIL after two/three consecutive failed driving cycles.
5. Stores a Pending Trouble Code as a DTC after two consecutive failed driving cycles.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC – Type A or Type B

The MIL will turn off after four consecutive driving cycles in which the diagnostic runs without a fault.
A history DTC will clear after 40 consecutive warm up cycles without a fault.
DTC(s) can be cleared by using a scan/diagnostic tool.

Non–Emissions Related DTCs Un Tested DTC's

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

1. The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will not illuminate.
2. The ECM will record a DTC at the time the diagnostic fails.

Conditions for Clearing the DTC

A history DTC will clear after 40 consecutive warm up cycles without a fault.
DTC(s) can be cleared by using a scan/diagnostic tool.

How to read a DTC Code

The DTC value will help you narrow down the specific component or module in question. A DTC has a standardized format that can be interpreted as follows:
The first part of the DTC is the Alpha Designator. The alpha designator will be:

B - Body electronics (i.e., door and hood latches)
C - Chassis (i.e., traction control or ABS)
P - Powertrain (i.e., engine, transmission)
U - Network communications for the different control modules

Second Digit - Code Type
The second digit identifies whether the code is a generic code (same on all OBD-II equpped vehicles), or a manufacturer specific code.

0 = Generic (The diagnostic codes that are required by law on all OBD II systems are "generic" in the sense that all vehicle manufacturers use the same common code list and the same 16-pin diagnostic connector. Thus, a P0301 misfire code on a Ford means the same thing on a Vauxhall, Citroen, Toyota or Mercedes.)

1 = Enhanced ( Each vehicle manufacturers also have the freedom to add their own "enhanced" codes to provide even more detailed information about various faults. Enhanced codes also cover non-emission related failures that occur outside the engine control system. These include ABS codes, HVAC codes, airbag codes and other body and electrical codes.)

Third Digit - Sub-System

The third digit denotes the type of sub-system that pertains to the code

1 = Emission Management (Fuel or Air)
2 = Injector Circuit (Fuel or Air)
3 = Ignition or Misfire
4 = Emission Control
5 = Vehicle Speed & Idle Control
6 = Computer & Output Circuit
7 = Transmission
8 = Transmission
9 = SAE Reserved
0 = SAE Reserved

Fourth and Fifth Digits
These digits, along with the others, are variable, and relate to a particular problem code error number

So let's diagnose a DTC, I've picked P0404-73 EGR control circuit range/performance: actuator stuck closed

so we have:
P = Powertrain (engine, transmission)
0 = Generic
4 = Emissions control
0 4 =This is the specific error code within Emission control. In this case the EGR control circuit range/performance
-73= This is a specific problem, in this case the actuator is stuck closed. 74 means its stuck open.

Hope this helps somebody, somewhere

And please highlight any errors, mistakes as I am still learning about diagnostics and any help would be appreciated

15th Feb 2011 7:57pm

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

Very helpful Bri

15th Feb 2011 8:41pm

Augusto

Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 35

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

To Gary or BAS:
In order to be more precise when ordering a remap, what kind of inputs you need from me to do your job ?
What questions will you ask me?
What parameters I should start to considering?
Just to think about it.
Thanks

15th Feb 2011 10:27pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

Augusto wrote:
To Gary or BAS:
In order to be more precise when ordering a remap, what kind of inputs you need from me to do your job ?
What questions will you ask me?
What parameters I should start to considering?
Just to think about it.
Thanks

Hi i would need really to know very simlar to this PDF of the puma maf developement im starting in the next few days.

http://www.defender2.co.uk/gallery/albums/...rm%202.pdf

We will be starting this project in the next day or so to locate and iisloate puma drivbility faults from failing components and vehicle modification clashes on tuned cars like Decat exhausts etc etc.

As with all of our BAS tuning on every model we dont just produce something and leave it be, we are always working to improve perfect and help our customers with issues they may or may not have even if its an original underline car issue or from a modification made that was not present as the time of original tune. We are probabally one of the very few tuning companys that keep spending money on developement of products as landrover make changes to their base software.

Pete

Last edited by bell-auto-services on 15th Feb 2011 11:50pm. Edited 1 time in total

15th Feb 2011 11:00pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

An informative post Lorryman100, you have been going some homework

To clarify and add to it since im in the know

Puma error dtc age limit is 255 Counts of key cycles before dtc is auto removed
Puma error with mill lamp on dtc age limit is 40 Counts of warm-ups before dtc is auto removed

These options are also setable and adjustable or even removable via tuning if you know where to look and what to change, every single fault type in the car is available for modification if needed.
In fact i may change the shown NON tested dtcs and their age limit before clearing in my tuning to help the user determine the real faults if any.

Funny really as ive seen landrovers updates many, many times change the (DTC filter mask) for various faults and socalled fixes they come out with. Battery monitoring was one that springs to mind on the Discovery 4

Pete

15th Feb 2011 11:49pm

Alive Tuning

Member Since: 01 Mar 2010
Location: Louth
Posts: 609

bell-auto-services wrote:
Puma error dtc age limit is 255 Counts of key cycles before dtc is auto removed
Puma error with mill lamp on dtc age limit is 40 Counts of warm-ups before dtc is auto removed

These options are also setable and adjustable or even removable via tuning if you know where to look and what to change, every single fault type in the car is available for modification if needed.

He's not making this up you know!

16th Feb 2011 2:07pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

bell-auto-services wrote:

Puma error dtc age limit is 255 Counts of key cycles before dtc is auto removed
Puma error with mill lamp on dtc age limit is 40 Counts of warm-ups before dtc is auto removed

Now for the stupid question

Does the above counts of 255/40 key cycles mean in which the diagnostic runs without the fault reoccurring?

16th Feb 2011 6:55pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

Yes this is normally the case.

16th Feb 2011 7:01pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

bell-auto-services wrote:

Puma error dtc age limit is 255 counts

heres another 255 count: 10AS ECU plip code = 255 rolling code count

18th Feb 2011 12:02am

fekete

Member Since: 24 Dec 2008
Location: Here on the other end of the computer
Posts: 3626

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Bonatti Grey

Alive Tuning's ATRIC Remap.... Arriving in the morning

NEVER TAKE LIFE SERIOUSLY. NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE ANYWAY

18th Feb 2011 8:11pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Good one Karl

Take it you'll not bother with remap versions 1&2 and go straight for version 3

18th Feb 2011 8:13pm

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