 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Developing transmission rumble and vibration |
 
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| Rickydodah Member Since: 14 Jul 2014 Location: East Sussex Posts: 1091  |
Right I'll do my best to try and explain this so you understand. Looking from the diff towards the transfer box, with the diff end yoke which is fixed to the shaft at 90-270deg (horizontal) the yoke on the shaft at the transfer box end is at 110-340deg or around 20deg from vertical. So with 0deg being at the twelve o'clock position the diff end yoke at 3-9 o'clock position the front yoke is at about eleven o'clock. I hope that makes sense, I did try and photograph it but we've got 80mph winds at the moment and it wasnt happening.  I started with nothing and still have most of it left! |
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20th Nov 2016 10:34am |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221 
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Rickydodah - thanks for that! I completely agree. Had a proper look at mine this morning as well, and I have exactly the same set-up as you, implying a 3 spline phase shift between the TC and Diff end yokes. I've tried to represent this schematically below.
Okan - Hope this helps a bit. This seems to be the factory arrangement. For your reference mine is a 2009 110.  |
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20th Nov 2016 11:29am |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138 
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Hi! Thanks for your help!
But this morning I was so disapointed with it that I tried each time with every different splin. I 'm crazy but now I m certain that this terrafirma shaft wasn't well balanced from the begining because every splin is the same result with vibrations. So I have no more hope with this propshaft. It's realy a crap aftermarket part. Best regards |
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20th Nov 2016 1:51pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi
To be certain, I tried a second time to drive without the rear propshaft with only double card and diff locked, but this time I feel a little vibration when I was going up a hill so I don't know what to think about this. The vibration was not so hard than with the rear prpshaft but it was well here. So It could be another problem too. Very bad news... regards |
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20th Nov 2016 5:57pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi!
I tried to do my best to make a correct drawing about my drivline. What do you think about angles Sorry for the two years old drawing but I m not an expert with computer  I tried to respect that I saw under my vehicule and I made measurment as precise as possible.
Best regards |
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21st Nov 2016 8:13pm |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221
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Okan - the drawings are excellent, and give some telling information.
On the rear shaft, the flange on the TC and Diff are not co-planar and there is about 3 degrees difference in the operating angles. To avoid vibration its recommended that the front and rear angles are within 1 degree of each other. That said, I'm not sure that this is the single cause of your issue. As is often the case, the whole problem is the sum of a bunch of minor issues. In your case, the angles are not equal, the phasing *could* be wrong, and you suspect a balancing issue. Each may contribute somewhat, but the angles would seem to be a significant contributor. In any case, the real question is what can you do about it, and how much effort are you willing to make: The phasing and balance are the easiest issues to solve. Personally I would set it up out of phase by 2 splines, and get it dynamically balanced by a qualified shop. If you do this, make sure that you calculate your maximum shaft rotational speed, and get it balanced to that speed. The different angles are more complicated. Either you can get a a DC shaft for the rear. Or you can lower your lift (my +40mm has no problem on rear). Or you can get adjustable rear radius arms to change the angle of your differential, so that your flanges are within 1 degree of each other. In your case, there is also the fact that you still feel a vibration even without the rear drive shaft....!! |
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21st Nov 2016 9:21pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi!
Thanks for helping me. About the angle I'm realy far from 1 degree if it's aroud 3 degree! That's a big difference. But about this I find it strange because I allready have front terrafirma 3 degree caster corrected radius arm and rear terrafirma cranked radius arm. Why these doesn't correct the angle? I saw in a youtube vidéo that it's possible to add some spacer under the spring support to correct the angle of the diff nose. But it's necessary to have big précision with the spacer. I presume that the concept is to get a parallel axle between flanges from the transfert box and the diff About the front, we have around 10 degrees. It's 9x more than 1 degree. It's a big difference. Maybe the DC is not suffisant to correct that? At this time, you are right. the best issue should be to get this rear propshaft balanced and phased. But in Switzerland the only spécialist able to to this in my region ask around 170GBP for doing this job. It's an agression  At this price I can buy a new rear wide angle without any guarantee to solve my problem, like you said it, I feel vibrations without this rear propshaft.
Just to have an idea. Which kind of springs do you have for your lift? Which setup? Corrected radius arms? Front DC? Rear wide angle? Best regards |
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21st Nov 2016 10:51pm |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221
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Okan, the DC in the front should easily manage that angle. Apparently a stock Spicer DC can manage 20+ deg (see http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html).
In Switzerland everything is expensive! Maybe try Italy or France, which are not too far from where you are? My own truck has a +40mm lift using King Springs and Koni Raid shocks. Radius arms are stock. I use it more for overlanding than extreme off-road, so nothing too crazy. I have a custom front DC shaft and the rear is stock, although I will likely upgrade it to a custom heavy duty shaft. I do not have too much vibration, BUT.... I changed all bushes for Superpro, new rear fulcrum ball joint, new wheel bearings, all steering joints are new and swivel joints have been re-built. All this helped reduce the general vibration and harshness in the vehicle and it drives better than before. Did it need all this stuff changed? With 50,000km, probably not, but as I bought the vehicle used, I wanted it to be "fresh" with a baseline history on all consumables. I will be in Solothurn and Neuchatel over the next few weeks with my truck. You're more than welcome to come up and compare the vibration with yours. [/url] |
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21st Nov 2016 11:28pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi!
Thanks for the link. It's very well done. I will read it more accurately when I have got some time! I'm in Geneva in Switzerland. Where are you from? About your setup it's interesting. You don't have the corrected radius arms and stock propshaft and it works better. Maybe as you said the new bearing and other stuff can maybe help. How many km has your landie? Mine is 2.4tdci 2009 with 117000km. Wheel bearing were checked at 100000km but not replaced because they where in good condition. Transfert case, clutch and output shaft just were replaced one week ago with ashcroft parts. And vibrations are still hear. That's why I want absolutly solve it before the problem being worst. About your king springs do you have the ref part? How are thoses springs when you overlanding about weight because. I m overlanding too and my landie is runing every day at the constant weight of 3000kgs Best regards |
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22nd Nov 2016 7:25am |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221
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Okan,
For the King springs: 30mm lift Front coils Part No # KRFR-03 Rear Coils Part No # KLRR-05 50mm lift HD Version (Recommended for Extra Load and Accessories only) Front Coil Part No # KRFR-03HD Rear Coil Part No # KLRR-05HD I do not use the HD versions because I run my vehicle quite light. All the gear is on a trailer. |
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24th Nov 2016 12:06pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi redline!
Thanks for the ref. Mine is 3000kg loaded everyday so I will need HD. Do you have cranked rear radius arms on your landie? Best regards |
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25th Nov 2016 4:43pm |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221
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Okan - stock rear radius arms for me. I have a slight difference in the flange angles, but not enough to be a concern.
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25th Nov 2016 4:47pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi!
Thanks for your answer! Regards |
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29th Nov 2016 1:28pm |
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| redline Member Since: 28 Jun 2015 Location: Mountains and Lakes Posts: 221
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Okan,
A friend of mine had a pretty good idea: Incrementally add weight (eg 50kg, 100kg, 150kg...) to the rear of the vehicle, so that the rear suspension gradually compresses and the angles of the flanges gradually converge. If the vibration reduces or stops, then it is definitely your driveshaft that is the cause. I have not tried it myself, but it seems quite logical. |
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29th Nov 2016 2:48pm |
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