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redline

Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Mountains and Lakes
Posts: 221

Developing transmission rumble and vibration

So here's the deal: Have had to do a lot of highway miles in the 110 this month - around 4,000km. At the start of the month the car had just had a major service, and was peachy. During the course of the month, it has slowly developed a transmission rumble and slight vibration. The symptoms of which are:
- Vibration start above 80kph.
- Rumble when I come off the accelerator
- Driving between 80-110kmh the vehicle feels "rough". Below those speeds its quite smooth (for a Defender).
- It is getting progressively worse. Not too bad yet, but would like to catch it before it degenerates further.
- No steering wobble - its definitely coming from the driveline.

Last service all fluids were changed. All bushes were replaced with SuperPro. Rear triangle was changed. Front swivel pins were serviced. New tyres (BFG KO2) were fitted.

The vehicle has a 40mm lift, which I understand will cause vibrations, but I was quite happy with it 4,000km ago. I am wondering what has happened (deteriorated) during that time.

Any ideas?

28th Sep 2016 12:35pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

Given your last para, I'd look at prop shaft UJ's first. The lift will have put additional strain on them, which would lead to the gradual failure you're describing. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

28th Sep 2016 12:41pm

AJC

Member Since: 30 Nov 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1354

Could be something a simple as wheel out of balance

28th Sep 2016 12:45pm

Laurie

Member Since: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 2897

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

LandRoverAnorak wrote:
Given your last para, I'd look at prop shaft UJ's first. The lift will have put additional strain on them, which would lead to the gradual failure you're describing.

Absolutely agree.
Chock a couple of wheels and let the handbrake off. Then hand check each joint. It's more likely to be the front propshaft.
Do it NOW - it may get more dangerous/expensive.

28th Sep 2016 12:51pm

Roy5695

Member Since: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1123

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Indus Silver

I have a similar problem with my 110, only vibrates between the 1700 - 2000rpm range going up hill.

I have removed both prop shafts and theyre fine, gave them a good greasing while they were off, no movement or play anywhere else but it definitely feels like its in the drive line as it makes the gear box/stick shake and can be felt through the floor of the cab.

hopefully you'll get a resolution.

28th Sep 2016 1:04pm

redline

Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Mountains and Lakes
Posts: 221

Gents,

Thanks for the replies.

I doubt its the wheels: Firstly the tyres are new and newwly balanced and I have only been on highways since. Secondly, the accompanying noise and harshness is not characteristic of wheel balance issues.

Driveshaft and/or UJ's ... Good points! I will check ASAP. What would be a permanent fix? Don't say "remove the lift"

A double cardan would address the different angles at transfer case and diff ends. Would there be any downside to a DC?

28th Sep 2016 3:00pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17237

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

redline wrote:
Would there be any downside to a DC?

No downside apart from the impact on your wallet, in fact any TDCi benefits from having a DC prop fitted in the front, it will remove the vibration issues that you may not even have noticed that you have. it is something of a mystery why LR didn't fit one in the first place, since the nose-up tilt of the engine and gearbox means that the two flanges are not co-planar and hence a standard propshaft can never be ideal. I imagine that LR figured that in a relatively agricultural vehicle nobody would notice a little more noise and vibration (unlike the Disco 2 where clearly it was felt that a more 'suburban' buyer would).

28th Sep 2016 3:11pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2617

All Defender front propshafts are non-co-planar due to the 'nose up' angle of the front diff.

However the addition of a nose-up angle of the engine/transmission on Tdci models does make it worse.

28th Sep 2016 4:20pm

redline

Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Mountains and Lakes
Posts: 221

Cheers chaps! This forum is a fantastic resource ... really appreciate the knowledge that is shared on here

I will check the UJ's tomorrow, but in any case will be ordering a front DC prop.

Will report back with the results...

28th Sep 2016 10:46pm

tuesdayfox

Member Since: 23 Jun 2013
Location: Sydney,OZ
Posts: 129

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Zambezi Silver

following as mine also rumbles when I come off the accelerator.
my defender is MY13 2.2 defender and I have DC propshaft.

I previously has 40mm lift with DC propshaft but no rumbles....
I recently removed the lift and now vibration when I off the pedal...

very frustrating....

Cheers
Martin

29th Sep 2016 3:22am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

blackwolf wrote:
the two flanges are not co-planar and hence a standard propshaft can never be ideal...

Ahh, interesting point - so the phasing cant be optimal (as phasing can be) in a set up like we've got? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

29th Sep 2016 7:22am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17237

I believe (and it is a very long time since I studied the geometry and dynamics of such things) that the phasing of a drive shaft with two Hooke joints can only be optimal if the joint angles at either end are identical. Any deviation and the cyclic acceleration/deceleration becomes inevitable.

This is, of course, the benefit of the double Hooke or DC joint, since in effect it provides a very short additional shaft with guaranteed equal angles in the two joints. A propshaft with a double Hooke joint at both ends would probably do the job best of all, but is probably unnecessary.

29th Sep 2016 8:38am

tuesdayfox

Member Since: 23 Jun 2013
Location: Sydney,OZ
Posts: 129

HI all,just an update...

today the vibration issue was solved....when I changed the shocks three weeks ago, I forgot the tighten two nuts on the left shock tower...

But I will also add that, last week I thought the vibration was due to my rear prop shaft so I changed the UJs.
this significantly reduce rumbling and cabin noise.... which is so noticable my wife ask what have I done...
so there you go

cheers
Martin

11th Oct 2016 4:36am

redline

Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Mountains and Lakes
Posts: 221

Guys - update on my end too: the UJ's were in fact pretty worn, despite the relatively low mileage. Attributable I believe to the lift placing undue strain on them, as pointed out by several of you knowledgeable folk... Also the lift affects the spline engagement on the shaft - although minor, it is noticeable.

The vehicle has been parked up since, and have ordered a front DC shaft which will be fitted ASAP. Will update once its fitted.

11th Oct 2016 7:30am

redline

Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Mountains and Lakes
Posts: 221

Final update from my end: The DC shaft (front) has made quite a difference. I now have 7-800km on the new prop shaft, and can say that the car feels much more refined - less vibration in general, particularly at speed, as well as the rumble disappearing. Furthermore the slight steering resonance that I had at certain speeds has been eliminated. All in all, highly recommended for lifted TDCI's.

Thanks to all for the good advice!

5th Nov 2016 10:54pm

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