 | Home > Technical > Traction control or diff. locks? |
 
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2410   
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To use either front/rear locker, CDiff has to be locked (unless you have both, front and rear). My landy does not have TC and therefore I fitted the rear ARB lock diff. IMHO, TC is good enough unless you will be doing extreme off roading. The other advantage, is you can lock any axle before you think can get into troubles.
 Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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16th Sep 2010 11:26am |
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| Arctic Member Since: 25 Aug 2010 Location: Europe Posts: 45 |
Makes sense. I am looking for a new Defender and was thinking that if I found a good one but it didn't have traction control fitted then one option would be to fit ARB lockers. The only disadvantage I can see is that you wouldn't have the traction control on normal highways when the weather was bad but I suppose it is not really an issue. I have a Series IIA so I am quite used to driving without all the modern traction aids
 That vehicle is normally rear wheel drive and it doesn't have a centre diff. so four wheel drive is only used on low friction surfaces when required. |
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16th Sep 2010 11:41am |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2410
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I agree. Last week when going to the Aconcagua mountains, wheels (both same side) on the slippery side with ice where spinning and going anywhere. The only way was to lock the rear diff. The other Defender was there had to fit snow chains (niether TC nor ARB).
ARB also performed excellent uphill on fully snowed terrain. In such conditions TC would have taken a bit too long time to engage. Of course, ARB is not that good on curves as TC would be. Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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16th Sep 2010 11:54am |
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| Arctic Member Since: 25 Aug 2010 Location: Europe Posts: 45 |
If traction control applies the brake to a spinning wheel, is there any problem when it is needed for longer periods? (For example, brakes overheating)
In this situation then mechanical diff locks seem more energy efficient. |
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16th Sep 2010 12:11pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2410
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I actually can not say anything about it. Both systems have ups and downs. ARB is about US$1200 including a HD compessor and tire inflation bits. Do not know TC´s costs. Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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16th Sep 2010 12:35pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8003  
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i am not aware of over heating being an issue, i do know of a brake caliper fault we had on an early 07MY vehicle where TC was working hard in reverse for a long period of time and it sheared the caliper casting at the bolt mount. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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16th Sep 2010 2:55pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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Thanks JST for the explanation. I didn't know that. Roel
1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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16th Sep 2010 6:20pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2635  
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Yep, was the same on my D2 Td5. When you get stuck, just keep your foot on the accelerator, steady rpm, and 1-2s later, the TC will kick in and off you go! As for diff locks, I would put one only in the back - something like a Kam or an ARB, but leave the front. In most cases when stuck on an obstacle, you will need to steer and with a diff lock you will not be able to. |
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16th Sep 2010 7:21pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2635
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jst, do you have the VIN number from which this was put into production? I'd like to know if mine has the 'new' TC - bought the landy in Feb 2010. Also, will the dealers be given a software patch to upgrade pre-11MY to the 'new' TC? |
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16th Sep 2010 7:26pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8003
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its a bit more than a software patch, new system is made by Bosch old one is Siemens (IIRC).
All post 5 Jul 10 build are 11MY vehicles. there were a few (12 i believe) prior to that but they were all used internally by LR and LRE. i can't remember the chassis VIN change, could look it up though but yours won't have it. Ref the rpm and keeping your toe in; TC reacts to a difference in wheel rotation speed. The greater that speed variation the quicker and the harder TC will interact. This explains why when you become say cross axled say 1st gear low at tickover the car will lurch fwd roll back and repeat and wont drive through. TC is working then BUT it is working slowly with limited braking forces on the spinning wheel. If you increase engine revs you will spin that 'hung' wheel quicker TC will therefore react more aggressively with a greater brake force on the spinning hung wheel thus diverting the torque through an open diff to the wheel that was turning slower (or stationary) and hopefully giving you drive. If you increase engine revs as you approach an obstacle that you know will need TC and you do it in the right place you can overcome the delay to your fwd movement without increasing the overall vehicles speed. Easier said than done, but if you drive the same section alot you can do it. TC wont get you out of everything. you need speed variation between the wheels and you need at least one wheel to have traction. You could sit on a wet grassy field at increased RPM all day with all 4 wheels (CDL locked) spinning at the same speed, TC not working (as they are all spinning the same speed) and just be digging holes! Ref axle lockers, i have ARB's in mine and they always got my vote over KAM, although if you are thinking of going this route there is a very reputable transmission manufacturer about to bring out a rival for the ARB - still air operated. From the testing i have seen it works well. With a locker fitted you wouldnt need to disable TC as both wheels on the axle are turning at the same speed so TC just wouldn't come into play. With respect to fitting lockers, rear is the normal way to go followed by front. If you are putting a locker in the front and wish to be able to steer then fit uprated (Ashcroft) CVs, a front locker in and a boot full of power on anything other than straight ahead will soon see std CVs off. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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16th Sep 2010 8:40pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2635
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Do tell which manufacturer it is  |
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17th Sep 2010 7:39am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8003
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they are still in the 'testing' phase so no dates of when they will be out yet but what i have seen so far shows that they work as intended. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th Sep 2010 8:33am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2635
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May we ask why? I have heard stories of thing going wrong with the ARB setup - air lines, compressor, etc. |
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17th Sep 2010 8:37am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8003
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Why ARBs?
because at the time 5yrs ago now, the only other option people were using in the challenge scene were KAM for true lockers. I knew of several people who had fitted KAM and not found them (at the time) to be very reliable and had lots of problems with replacement parts on KAM drivetrain components. Those i knew who had ARBs which was the majority had had a few cage breakages and compressor failures but these failures were through their own admittance of misuse. ie engaging a locker with a wheel spinning or dunking compressors. So i took the ARB route, since then i have had no problems with the lockers themselves but the compressor has had to have a new regulator switch (£25ish). These were my findings at the time from my experience and that of others competing in the same comps as me. Things may well have changed and moved on since then. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th Sep 2010 11:15am |
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