 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > EGR cooler mixing exhaust gasses into coolant? |
 
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558  
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are you getting any white smoke ( steam ) from exhaust when running ?
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23rd May 2014 4:16pm |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
I've not stood at the back to have a look on tick over, but while driving I've not noticed any! Just a little bit of black smoke on boost since I put a blanking plate in (16mm hole in the middle of it).
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23rd May 2014 4:50pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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normally you would get a bit white smoke steam if water was getting in bores or in exhaust
does coolant system pressureize when running ( don't open if hot ) ? proper way is to fit pressure gauge to coolant bottle then start to see if gauge rises |
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23rd May 2014 4:58pm |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
It sure does, if anything, it feels over pressurised.
I'll check the exhaust when it's running next, the coolant isn't leaking anywhere in the engine bay - so I can only think it's going out of the exhaust.. Edit - I can see the white steam smoke exiting the expansion tank if I take the cap off on start up & idle. Smells like exhaust fumes too. |
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23rd May 2014 5:08pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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really only way to rule out egr cooler is to bypass it , just join the two coolant hoses on it together then go on test run ,
why was head gasket done before ? |
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23rd May 2014 5:23pm |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
Will they stretch that far? Do I need any additional fixtures/fittings?
The gasket had failed and as a result it wouldn't pull you out of bed without overheating, we bought it in that condition without really knowing what to expect until we hooked a trailer up & then the problems started. A short test drives wasn't enough to really get it working hard enough to tell us what was wrong. Head off, skim and pressure test, new stretch bolts, gaskets etc and it towed well, but recently it's lost its gusto for working hard. I'm wondering if when I added a blanking plate this increased the pressure in the exhaust gas recirculating system and there has been a pin hole form in the cooler. I'll give your suggestion a go if I can, cheers for the advice! |
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23rd May 2014 5:33pm |
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| martinfiattech Member Since: 13 Nov 2013 Location: leicester Posts: 422
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You might need a bit of old copper pipe 13 / 15 mm o.d. to joint it all together, if required build up the pipe with some black electrical tape.
As mentioned above go for a drive see what happens. One assumes the rest of the cooling systems working ok. If you have access to a cooling system pressure tester fit it to the expansion tank when cold and watch for a pressure increase as it warms up. There will be a slight pressure increase due to it getting warm this is normal. Another option open to you is get the engine block tested while the egr heat exchanger is bypassed, this would be handy to do both hot and cold, just in case you have a problem at either end of the operating cycle. Any local garage would have this bit of kit, it can sometimes be a bit hard to prove on diesel engines due to there combustion gases, The other option is to place a engine exhaust anazilser probe over the expansion tank ( once the caps removed) to sniff any gases that may be given off. Does it misfire or run rough, hard starting etc.. Excuse the spelling I`am better with spanners and wires. |
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24th May 2014 10:33am |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
Thanks Martin, there is a very slight wobble on the engine when revving up to 1500rpm from cold, and the engine does seem to surge a little on idle, normally when hot. When in gear & accelerating no problems seem present.
Generally it starts fine, if I've been for a good run in it, then need to start it again it sounds like the starter motor struggles - but nothing compared to how hard it used to start before the head gasket replacement. |
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24th May 2014 3:23pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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did you find a reason for headgasket going in the first place ?
the puma engine in defender or transit are good headgasket wise , in fact I cant think of a headgasket failure on either , normally only time head off is needed is because of timing chain problem |
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24th May 2014 3:39pm |
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| martinfiattech Member Since: 13 Nov 2013 Location: leicester Posts: 422
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Hmmm,
As munch 90 says, myself I`ve not as yet had a head gasket issue with this engine, they are set up to cut out before they get to hot. Did you find the reason behind the initial failure, they can only skim so much off the head, and who knows if the block is still flat ( they don`t warp often) The faults described do sound a bit head gasket ish, does the engine do any of the following, 1. Does it use coolant, or blow it out of the expansion tank cap due to excessive system pressure. Again one assumes everything else within the system is working ok. 2. If it does have a misfire or wobble it maybe a poor injector, glow plug. How ever on engines with headgasket issues they can leak some coolant into the combustion chamber causing the same problems, on diesel`s it can actually slightly bend a con rod so giving a slightly lower compression ratio on one cylinder, I have had this myself a few times, once it warms up it clears. 3. If it is hard to start when hot, again one assumes the starting, charging systems are ok You may have coolant entering the cylinders. As for the surging on idle it may be a vcv valve or common rail pressure relief valve. Myself the first thing I would do is bypass the egr cooler and get it block tested then you know for sure what you are dealing with and how much its going to cost.. Excuse the spelling I`am better with spanners and wires. |
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25th May 2014 11:39am |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
Thanks for the replies
The original reason for changing the head gasket was the lack of power, difficulty to start and,when it did start a big puff of smoke, it also used to drive down the motorway with a trail of steamy white clouds behind it! It would struggle up a gentle incline say on the motorway it would have no gusto and result in dropping down through the gears to pull it along, unladen with just me sat in it. Since changing the gasket it pulls great! When I took the head for a pressure test and skim there were x 3 other cylinder heads out of transits waiting for collection on the workbench 
Today I gave it a service, I later bypassed the EGR cooler and on startup the steamy puff of smoke was gone, although just and I mean just a little steam from the expansion tank cap from cold. The exhaust fume smell seemed to disappear & the sweet smell of the coolant was present again. One thing that surprised me was that when I checked the thermostat, it wasn't opening & closing under boiling water - it was just open, say a millimetre or two, letting a trickle of water through. I'm wondering if this has recently become faulty and failed resulting in the over pressuring the system seems to be experiencing. I drove it 5 miles home from a mates garage and the needle went straight to half, it normally sits at 1/4 - I think the thermostat is now fully closed, when I stopped the pipes on the top were very hot and the single pipe below just luke warm. So, a replacement EGR cooler and new thermostat due this week. I'll keep you posted on how it performs over the next week or so. Thanks again for the information  |
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25th May 2014 9:14pm |
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| Whitewaitress Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 47 |
So I changed the thermostat yesterday evening, followed the procedure without a vacuum pump as per the workshop manual and took it for a spin - needle quickly rose to half way and remained there for the duration of the run, it did the same on the way to work this morning and the system didn't over pressurize and the coolant dissapear like it had started doing of late.
The engine on tickover sounds healthier too - I'm not stopping at lights to hear it surging or idling at ~900 rpm, now it's back to around a steady 750rpm at tickover. The surging appears to have dissapeared and the occasional 'clacking' sound on accelleration/tickover appears to have gone also  could this all have been due to cylinder head temperatures and the temperature at which the combustion was taking place? The cylinder head temp never reached 1/2 on the gauge unless it was about to overheat!
I've not properly had chance to do a sniff test on the coolant expansion tank yet, and the EGR cooler hasnt arrived yet. |
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29th May 2014 7:47am |
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| WelshGas Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 935  
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Well my overheating woes continue. Had the thermostat changed 2 weeks ago as it had failed closed. Everything fine for 2 weeks then, on Wednesday evening, stopped at traffic lights and steam from bonnet and Scanguage which had been reading 80 c up until then started going up so pulled over and stopped. Opened bonnet and fluid passing pressure cap and onto exhaust. Recovered by AA to my Indi garage. Initially they thought Head gasket, but I told them about this forum topic, they pressure tested system -leak, so they bypassed EGR cooler and repeated test-No leak. So have just completed 25mile test drive, some of it at 70, and Scanguge showed a maximum temp of 82c after a swift steep hill and then settled back to 76-80c for rest of journey. Hopefully this is now sorted. Will probably bypass in place as I have the EGR turned off in software.
 LANDYWATCH
Neighbourhood Watch for Land Rover Owners http://www.landywatch.co.uk/smf2/index.php |
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30th May 2014 6:29pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2753 
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Hi guys,
Old thread but could do with your thoughts. I to replaced thermostat as had overheating problems. Didn't help, and rest of cooling system is good. (Pump and rad were swapped out and no better). All bled etc ok. It failed it's Smeg test but is showing no signs of other head gasket symptoms, and like you I somehow suspect EGR. Did you get anywhere with the bypass? My EGR is blanked & mapped off anyway so shouldn't need cooling! Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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4th Dec 2015 12:14am |
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