 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > I AM going to need a CAT! |
 
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| Porny Site Sponsor Member Since: 31 Aug 2009 Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands Posts: 809  
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Personally I would just wait until after the 16th before worrying about it...
As with every new piece of legislation, there has to be rules, documents, explanations around it. And at the moment all that has been released is a blanket rule that a diesel must have a CAT or CAT/DPF if originally fitted... there is no supporting information been released. I spend half of my life, reading, understanding, making sense of documentation and more importantly legislation - as you 'have' to understand what you can and can't do. There are lots of things that will often be considered close to the edge - often referred to as 'not really in the spirit of the rules' - but in reality if what are doing doesn't actually cross the line, then you are not doing anything wrong - apart from stretching the window of possibility. There is no way they can make a blanket statement that a vehicle must be fitted with a CAT if it was originally supplied with it.... for the reason how will the MOT tester know what the specification of the vehicle was? Some of the MOT testers I've met struggle to write their name, let alone have a in-depth knowledge of every vehicle. Lets look at some examples: Take a 2001MY Defender that was the last 2001MY Defender produced on the line. This was built to EU2 spec and did not require a CAT to meet that legislation. The next vehicle on the track was the first 2002MY Defender. This was built to EU3 specification and did require a CAT. Both are registered as 2002 Vehicles. How will an MOT tester know that the 2001MY model didn't have a CAT from new, but the 2002MY version did. Unless they are introducing a new database system - they won't. But this hasn't been mentioned yet.... Perhaps they are working on a huge database... but in reality I don't think this would be in place for any 'semi' modern vehicle. It could be a blanket rule based on year, but this would require some serious investigation and huge knowledge of Emissions Classes. A Defender does not come under the same rules as emissions as say a Ford Fiesta. So for a example a 2004 Ford Fiesta would have stricter limits to meet - and thus would require more emissions related components than a 2004 Defender which has a less stringent limit to meet, thus would not require the same control over the engine emissions. Going one step further back and using the 2001 Defender as an example... A 2001 Fiesta Diesel had a CAT, a 2001 Defender didn't.... This is why DPF's have been around for much longer on 'passenger vehicles' (i.e. smaller cars) than say a Defender - which only had a DPF fitted in 2012. I'm not saying a blanket year wouldn't work, but IMHO it would have to be post 2008 (or there abouts) - which also happens to coinside with the change to MOT rules a few year ago that say the smoke limit level dropped (for post 2008). At the moment, all of these threads are doing nothing but scaremongering. Until I see a copy of the rules and regulations (which there has to be!) all of this do I/don't I stuff is pointless. People also keep mentioning Type Approval - type approved parts is a different subject entirely - and more that you would want to discuss on a forum. A further debate on how effective - and real - the current emission test cyles are would be an equally exciting debate.. not. Ian IRB The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers. www.IRBdevelopments.com www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments www.integrated316.com www.facebook.com/integrated316 |
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7th Feb 2014 8:54pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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Good post, and as for that year bit, mine has a build date of January 2002, registered in May and had a cat fitted. I thought that the cats were fitted to Defenders along with the dashboard facelift and the 15P engine and carried on up to present day.
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7th Feb 2014 9:12pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Thanks Ian, a lot of 'food for thought' there! It may be a little panic on my behalf and you are correct, a lot more clarification is required. I have a number of months before test but think 'doing something' may be the prudent thing to do rather than do nothing. Waiting a few weeks won't hurt either and your contribution has allayed the great urgency I felt.
Brian I hate the idea of my vehicle failing an MOT when I have the time to do something about it, that comes with mild OCD affliction.   If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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7th Feb 2014 9:13pm |
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| Landlord Member Since: 27 Oct 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 582 
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Hi K9F, you probably saw my post on the other thread hence getting my MOT on Monday. At least I'll then have 12 months to see what the outcome of the legislation is / what aftermarket CATs are suddenly available.
Could this be the start of the no mods, original equipment, OEM parts only, EU legislation that was discussed months ago ? 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top |
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7th Feb 2014 9:45pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Hi Landlord,
Yes I read your post and would have done exactly as you have done in your case. I am surprised the intention is to bring this in retrospectively if that is the case. I can see more legislation being inevitable. As a motorcyclist look how long they tried to bring in the 100BHP rule? There will be others that are due MOTs after the deadline and it will be interesting to find more detailed information. Time will tell but I will still have 'something' in place metaphorically speaking for my test.....Looks like I'll have to. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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7th Feb 2014 10:09pm |
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| Landlord Member Since: 27 Oct 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 582
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Just as annoying is the MOT was due on the 16th March, I could, therefore, have had an MOT on the 17th Feb and got 13 months
 The new legislation comes in on the 16th Feb.
Getting an MOT on Monday means I've lost a month but gained some breathing time to see how it all pans out  2007 TD5 90 Hard TopLast edited by Landlord on 7th Feb 2014 10:50pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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7th Feb 2014 10:35pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777  
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OK, question for Ian, Brian and others of a technical persuasion.
A cat uses various metals and heat to get rid of various nasties from the exhaust gasses. A PDF does as above but also burns off the soot. What equipment would be required to test the above are indeed working? Cheers Keith |
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7th Feb 2014 10:47pm |
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| RockJaw Member Since: 15 Oct 2013 Location: United States Posts: 317  
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Brilliant idea!! And it really is quite obvious isn't it? If there is no solution at hand before the 16th, just get the paperwork done now and take 13 months to sort the mess out. ****CENSORED**** |
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8th Feb 2014 1:18am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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Here we go, they're starting to pop up on fleabay now
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defen...3cd09440a1 |
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8th Feb 2014 9:23pm |
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| Regard Member Since: 08 Dec 2011 Location: RSA Posts: 251  
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Oh how glad am I to be living in dark Africa when I read things like this.......luckily our "gouvernmounts" (as said with a deep African accent) is so bloody busy being corrupt that they will never have time to think out these idiotic legislations!
A road worthy vehicle here is seen as one that have any sort of wooden material for brake pads, a vice grip for steering wheel, six different color panels around the car and four different sized/retreaded tyres...... Ps...I have a full intact 2.4 cat laying in the garage. I wont need it anytime soon here in Africa  Let me know if it will be worth your while. |
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9th Feb 2014 6:42am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Work in progress......
 Click image to enlarge If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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26th Mar 2014 8:15pm |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
On Defenders ABS is an optional extra. AFAIK, the mot tester knows whether it's fitted when he enters your reg/vin,he's then told about the ABS warning light sequence. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5. |
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27th Mar 2014 8:02am |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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I find it funny that the de cat pipes for sale are still same money , same as tax disc holders think I would by trying to get rid of them by now
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27th Mar 2014 8:24am |
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| Dave H Member Since: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Bexley Posts: 28 
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Hi guys, I have an impending MOT and no CAT, and have just found the Allisport C-Cat. Not sure if they supply it to retro fit or with a down pipe but have asked the question!
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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3rd Apr 2014 9:14pm |
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