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| AlexPuma42 Member Since: 13 Jun 2013 Location: Manchester Posts: 43  
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I replaced the original paper speakers that LR supply you with a while ago and whilst i was happy with th improvement i now find myself wanting more bass to keep me going on the long drives
Now I'm investing in a Active Sub from Kenwood over xmas which i will be mounting to the bulkhead, As my LR is a Hard Top and the back is often filled with anything that fits i don't want to fit speakers in the load area I know Tweeters won't help increase bass but they will help improve the overall sound within my LR so could anyone recommend a set that are as simple as just replacing the original LR ones in my TDCI 58 plate? Im also thinking of putting in a set of 6x9's hopefully behind the seats if i can get them to fit - Now iv replaced speakers and fitted subs in all my cars but never have i used 6x9's so would i need to wire these into an amp? any recommendations on which 6x9s to purchase would be very much appreciated Now i would like my whole system to be kenwood but i know this isn't realistic if i want the best performance - Cheers Alex 110 Hard Top - Izmir Blue |
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13th Nov 2013 1:29pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446 
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Regarding the tweeters, what ever you choose aftermarket it won't just plug in but having said that just cut the plug off & identify the positive and negative. Add some crimp terminals and your away. You shouldn't need to Amp them unless you want to blow your ear drums out. (Sounds drastic to cut the plug off but is harmless and worth it)
6x9's would indeed require an Amp. A. To get best quality and power and B. To reduce stress on the HU as it cannot produce the high wattage required, thermally it'll get very hot too. It will likely cause premature HU failure at some point IMO. Also it's worth having a think about where you locate them, different areas sound better than others. Try and avoid cancelling out other speakers, might be worth trying them in locations before fitting and see how it sounds. Finally sound proofing is worth a little though too, something that I'm yet to sort out myself. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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13th Nov 2013 1:54pm |
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| AlexPuma42 Member Since: 13 Jun 2013 Location: Manchester Posts: 43
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Many thanks steve you've helped me out before with ICE questions a man of much knowledge
Looks like i may have to do a bit of shopping and trial and error- Cutting wires isn't a problem intact i have problems stopping myself from destroying things haha I was thinking about trying to build some kind of install accross the bulkhead using my dads woodworking skills i know this is definitely my destination for the sub but will have a think and a play to find out where to fit the 6x9's and in regards to insulation i have already purchased some thick insulation for when i re ply the back but need to look more into doing something on the cab so when funds allow i think i may go for some dynamat Don't worry i won't be doing the wiring myself when it comes to electrics i stand well back more of a nuts and bolts kinda guy 110 Hard Top - Izmir Blue |
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13th Nov 2013 2:10pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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Best advice I can give to you is that the HU produces 4x 50w, 50w per speaker in other words. 10cm and 13cm speakers match that well as a straight swap. The Tweeters are similar but for high power you'd need an Amp, personally IMO you'll find them loud enough as is! Bigger speakers than these would need to be Amped as would 6x9's and or a Sub. Key is to match RMS power wattage to be as close as possible between the Amp and speaker.
 No Guts, No Glory.
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 Last edited by custom90 on 13th Nov 2013 3:34pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Nov 2013 2:56pm |
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| Green Machine Member Since: 19 Nov 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1226 
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Those are some mighty big speakers, Steve! I think an extra '0' has crept in there!
 2005 Td5 | 90 Station Wagon | Tonga Green |
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13th Nov 2013 3:14pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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It had indeed,
 130cm 
 No Guts, No Glory.
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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13th Nov 2013 3:36pm |
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| mark_d Member Since: 07 Sep 2013 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 266 
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Apologies if I've misunderstood your advice, but I have a few thoughts to add in the interest of forum users. Head units are generally rated at peak power, the typical RMS output will be less than 20W per channel. There is no reason why a 4x50W head unit cannot run 6x9s or 16.5cm speakers, they do in many cars from the factory. Most full range speakers are 4ohm, so the physical size of the cone won't cause the amplifier stage in the HU to output any more power. This doesn't apply to speakers designed to output low range as the suspension is much stiffer and much more power is needed to move the cone. The ratings on speakers are like speed limits, they are the upper limit of the power they are safe to run, but you don't have to run them at the limit, much like defenders often operate below the speed limit. |
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13th Nov 2013 7:41pm |
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| mark_d Member Since: 07 Sep 2013 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 266
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It's worth noting that the OEM tweeter (in a Puma) has a small capacitor as part of the assembly that acts as a high pass filter. This blocks the low frequency (mid range) signals that will cause it to distort and possible damage it. If fitting an after-market tweeter, you should ensure there is some form of high pass filter in place. |
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13th Nov 2013 7:47pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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^^^^ Indeed I.e. A cross over, as for 6x9's your right it is possible to run them from the HU but that depends on the power of them how well that works out. It won't sound very good if it's a high powered 6x9 that is not having enough power delivered to it. Not only that in addition to this as well as popular belief that over powering a speaker will cause damage (which it will) under powering can do as well.
In my view the front and rear speakers and tweeters are fine powered by the HU, a Sub, pair of 6x9's or any additional much more powerful speakers should be Amped.. End of the day though everyone has their own ideas and ways of doing things, but ideally you want things just right because you want it to sound good which is the whole point and also not risk damaging your new kit. If you wanted to take out your speakers (example 10cm - 13cm) out and replace with 6x9's that'd be fine but defeats the point for me personally as I think the whole point of them is because they can handle more power. Again depending on model, but if they can take larger power the HU cannot provide it. Especially if powering other items too. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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13th Nov 2013 8:19pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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Your right, I should have put down the RMS as well as peak, trouble is a lot of them vary but generally the peak figure is the same on them. Trouble is that's not really the figure that is much use, sadly many manufacturers simply say 4x 50w meaning peak but the RMS is not mentioned at all. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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13th Nov 2013 8:25pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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As mentioned depends on if you are running other speakers, if you are running front and rear speakers and tweeters off the HU already then I personally would Amp the 6x9's. If you aren't you could consider HU powering them. (I personally wouldn't) I would recommend the two models at the bottom of the page here: http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/shop-online.aspx/6x9-speakers Bear in mind they have varying power figures on the two one has a higher peak wattage the other higher RMS wattage. RMS = Constant rated power rating Peak = Max power handling for a short burst. Obviously RMS is the figure to really look for to match. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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13th Nov 2013 8:41pm |
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| mark_d Member Since: 07 Sep 2013 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 266
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I think you need to be clear on what you mean when you say under powering a speaker can damage it. You will not damage a speaker by under powering it with undistorted signals. The damage you are referring to comes about when an amplifier is run into distortion, i.e. the output voltage reaches the limit of the amplifier and causes clipping. This can happen regardless of the amp to speaker power ratio. Clipping is bad for speakers because it puts energy into the coil that cannot be translated into motion, instead it dissipates as heat and damages the voice coil. When you run a speaker at less than full volume (lets face it, most of the time) you are under powering, i.e. not giving the full power of the amp - this does not damage speakers as millions of motorists can testify. Whilst it is true that larger speakers can handle more power, they also offer more to get better performance from a low power source like a HU. The sensitivities are generally higher (i.e dB output for 1W/1m) and they have a lower frequency response which make them sound more powerful even if the S.P.L. is the same. |
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13th Nov 2013 8:59pm |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2642 
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anybody got any big bass subs in there defender? i have focals all around then the alpine SWE-1200 which is severly lacking for me...
anybody got any neat sub installs in a defender? specifically a 90? when i install my rear seats i will be dynamatting the rear |
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18th Nov 2013 4:40pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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Mine, and I think Farmer Giles does or a work in progress. The rest are in the rear like what K9F or Barbel Jim has.
* edit Just realised you mention big, I'm assuming you mean 10" / 12" ? No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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18th Nov 2013 4:42pm |
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