 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Remap and noises after engine shutdown. |
 
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232   
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looool
Ill make it as simple as I can of what I THINK you are hearing from how you explain things, without me sounding also like a stuck record and providing what you describe is an air movement from the turbo noise here goes nothing! The puma 2.4 engine uses 16gs/second air to breath at idle speed, fact. As an example figure in STANDARD format some comes from the wing vent via the turbo, some from the egr via the burnt exhaust gass. Lets say for exapmple its split 50/50, 50% from wing vent/turbo intake, 50% from burnt gass = 16gs/second. We add a map, close the egr: where does the 50% or 8gs/second worth of missing air now come from because we have shut the egr thats still needed to make the engine run at idle ? would demanding double the air from the wing vent through the turbo double the intake and turbo noise at idle? would the double air make double intake noise as the engine is switched off, and you now here the air movement correctly now the engine is not running ? Would that be the noise you are hearing ? Mechanical rotation cant be the noise you here, it will be an air noise from sucking or air passing over the compressor or the compressor moving the air as it spins, the baring insinde the turbo does not make a noise when the compressor is spinning within it. Pete |
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10th May 2013 9:46pm |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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Lol, I hear and, despite what you might think, understand what you are saying Pete.
If the turbo bearings were on the way out might explain mechanical rather than induction noise but it isn't consistent between the two maps - given the volume of air might be the same whether it is coming either partially or wholly through the wing vent. If, and it is if, I get time I'll make a comparison video. Steve. Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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10th May 2013 10:13pm |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232
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I give up
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10th May 2013 10:19pm |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471
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Me too. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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10th May 2013 10:20pm |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232
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It it a mechanical noise or not ? |
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10th May 2013 10:20pm |
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| DarrenJ Member Since: 07 May 2012 Location: North Beds Posts: 312 
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I had a 300TDi Discovery Auto that I fitted a full size Alisport Intercooler too and a limitless "black box" to chip it, rather coarse compared to modern remaps. I used the car for several years and 40k miles after the upgrade and it never missed a beat and had zero mechanical failures. When you disconnected the black box the difference was hugely noticeable, the vehicle was just not as nice to drive due to lower torque and you found you had to rev the engine more to get the same ammount of drive ability. Darren
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10th May 2013 10:28pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638  
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I think a Youtube clip should be provided, so that Pete can have a listen and comment. --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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11th May 2013 10:02am |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471
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As I said the sound is from the turbo spooling down after engine shut down. Steve. Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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11th May 2013 10:08am |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232
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then its normal as per the explantion above. |
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11th May 2013 10:23am |
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| big steve Member Since: 24 Dec 2009 Location: hertfordshire Posts: 2456 
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my 3.2 does exactly the same you can hear the tubo on that spooling down after swich off
nothing to worry about in my opinion 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs 3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit ashcroft atb in transfer box 6 speed auto in build |
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11th May 2013 1:55pm |
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| Dave-H Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1507  
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Just my 2'penneth worth ............... My puma is running the IRB410 Sport map. I cant say i've noticed any difference in turbo noise/spool down to be honest .. sounds just the same as before
The IRB map doesnt actually completely shut down the EGR valve operation though - perhaps that is why  Guns and Landrovers .... anything else is irrelevant. |
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11th May 2013 8:16pm |
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| WelshGas Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 935  
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No spool down noise here with the original map, the original BAS remap with EGR off or the new BAS remap with EGR off, all with a Mantec plastic RAI. But I do idle for 30secs before switch off, always have done.
LANDYWATCH
Neighbourhood Watch for Land Rover Owners http://www.landywatch.co.uk/smf2/index.php |
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11th May 2013 10:43pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17355 
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I do have spool-down noise after applying the original BAS no-EGR map, and had never noticed any on the original map. It is possible that the noise from the EGR may have masked the sound, but to be honest I doubt it.
However I would expect the turbo to be spinning faster on tickover with a no-EGR map for the following reason (which I am surprised no-one has mentioned earlier in this thread). When on tickover with the EGR open, the engine will be drawing in a certain volume of intake gasses, some of them from the air intake and some via the EGR. The engine will then be exhausting a significantly greater volume of exhaust gasses, some of which will be diverted from the exhaust manifold back to the inlet via the EGR, the remainder being passed though the turbine side of the turbocharger to exhaust to atmosphere. If the EGR is shut with a map, even though there is no design change to the operation of the turbo at idle, assuming the same tickover speed the engine will be breathing the same volume intake gas and exhausting the same volume of exhaust gas. Now however all this intake gas will be coming via the air intake, hence the potential increase in induction noise as explained so well by Pete above, and significantly *all* the exhaust gasses (rather than just a proportion of them) will be passing through the turbine. A result of the gas laws will be that the velocity of the exhaust gas under these curcumstances will be greater than with the EGR open, hence the turbo will be spinning faster than it would be with the EGR open. Consequently if you shut down the engine the inertia of the of the rotating components will result in a longer spin down time. Inevitable. Either live with it or don't ness with the EGR! If you have changed the exhaust system (eg a de-cat or silencer removal) to reduce back pressure the effect will be exacerbated. I suspect that the reason that some people hear it and some don't has to do with the condition of the turbo bearings. Mine (at 120k miles) makes more noise than any turbo I have heard before, but if/when it fails it is an opportunity to fit a hybrid turbo in its place! All turbos will continue to spin for a while after engine shutdown, and the bearings are designed accordingly. Clearly it isn't a good thing to happen, and that is why it is *always* recommended to allow a turbo engine to idle for a while before shutting down (this also allows the turbo and bearings to cool). Failing to do this will do far more harm to a turbo than operating one with a no-EGR map. Bear in mind also that in the days before EGR valves all turbos spooled down like this anyway, and they don't fit crappier bearings just because EGR valves are now mandated. |
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13th May 2013 10:25am |
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| big steve Member Since: 24 Dec 2009 Location: hertfordshire Posts: 2456
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Extremely informative 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit ashcroft atb in transfer box 6 speed auto in build |
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13th May 2013 10:57am |
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