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bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

Remaps don't generally cause any extra ware than a normal standard car would have providing safety limits are adhered to and turbos are not sent over speeding on WOT. Induction noise will change slightly from the standard sounding noise at most engine speeds used under max rpm.

I have not herd or any brand remap killing a puma turbo since 2007.

10th May 2013 7:38pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

It would be difficult to prove the cause of a blown turbo either way though wouldn't it, whether it had a remap or not? I find it hard to believe that putting extra stresses on an engine, through the medium of a remap, have no detrimental long term effect on it. Saying that there have been no turbos killed by a remap since 2007 is anecdotal and irrelevant if no long term monitoring has taken place and statistics looked at.
If a Puma engine was meant to have the BHP and torque figures gained by a remap then why aren't they built that way?
Remaps are very vogue and offer significant performance gains, of that there is no doubt. I just think that folk should consider (which I am sure they do) a remap in a holistic manner and consider the potential increased wear and tear (proven or not) which is not and would not be covered by any warranty company.

10th May 2013 8:08pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

borderterrier wrote:
If a Puma engine was meant to have the BHP and torque figures gained by a remap then why aren't they built that way?
.

Because manufacturers have to take into considerations the worst case servicing history (farmers, hire companies etc, who will have drivers run them into the ground without checkin the oil) and a vehicle that might have to run on the poorest quality of fuel, in the harshest environment (and maybe said vehicle travels a lot, so goes from cold to hot to dusty to wet etc)

they want the engines to last at least 100k miles and be at least a bit reliable.

The average owner who bothers to get a remap is going to be mechanically sympathetic, polish the engine and use good quality synthetic oil. not some knuckle dragging ape who pours in whatever oil oil they happened to find in the shed then rags the engine from cold.

10th May 2013 8:15pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

borderterrier wrote:

If a Puma engine was meant to have the BHP and torque figures gained by a remap then why aren't they built that way?

Without this tuning into a tit for tat about tuning and the ins and outs related, please remember the Mk7 transit 2.4TDCi and its bhp versions though admitinglly still a little less than most offered remaps. and also the link in my signature below on the 2007 developement which shows just some of the depth I personally go to when doing my work. I have tests made, results good and bad, confirmation of what works and what does not etc as well as failures all under my belt.

One thing Im not short of is testing and developement information from 2007 until now totalling 6 years work without counting the 6pm until 11pm home work, unlike some companys who offer products and run!

I appreciate its each to their own regarding remaps but not all are bad and dangerious

Regards Pete

10th May 2013 8:20pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

I go with the first bit of what you have said Jim as that's kinda accepted that engines and vehicles are built to cater for a wide ranging customer base and fuels for that matter.

Not sure every owner of a remapped engine polishes it and treats it with the kit gloves you suggest though!

10th May 2013 8:20pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

I didn't say every, I said the average....

10th May 2013 8:24pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

bell-auto-services wrote:
borderterrier wrote:

If a Puma engine was meant to have the BHP and torque figures gained by a remap then why aren't they built that way?

Without this tuning into a tit for tat about tuning and the ins and outs related, please remember the Mk7 transit 2.4TDCi and its bhp versions though admitinglly still a little less than most offered remaps. and also the link in my signature below on the 2007 developement which shows just some of the depth I personally go to when doing my work. I have tests made, results good and bad, confirmation of what works and what does not etc as well as failures all under my belt.

One thing Im not short of is testing and developement information from 2007 until now totalling 6 years work without counting the 6pm until 11pm home work, unlike some companys who offer products and run!

I appreciate its each to their own regarding remaps but not all are bad and dangerious

Regards Pete

Pete, I am not questioning your development work at all, I am merely saying that individuals thinking of going for a remap should consider any potential and unknown pitfalls. Its impossible ot prove either way whether remapping has a negative effect on an engine and until some boffin runs a standard and remapped lump alongside each other for several thousand miles, strips and rebuilds, measures and records we will never know.

10th May 2013 8:30pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

diesel_jim wrote:
I didn't say every, I said the average....

so what does the average mean?

10th May 2013 8:33pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

What do you think it means? or do you just want to argue with eveyone on here?

10th May 2013 8:38pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

diesel_jim wrote:
What do you think it means? or do you just want to argue with eveyone on here?

Hey sorry for not going with the flow!

10th May 2013 8:39pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

eh? where did I mention that?!

"the average" is pretty self explanitory I think.

Whatever.

10th May 2013 8:41pm

borderterrier

Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

Nothing wrong with challenging the facts, or giving folk something to think about before they dive into a purchase is there?

10th May 2013 8:43pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

bell-auto-services wrote:
If the car is at idle speed, standard map the turbo is spinning at X speed and the egr is open and the air breathed is coming from two paths. The exhaust gas via the egr and rest the air intake via the turbo.

If the car is at idle speed, tuned map, egr closed as its deactivated. The air now is only getting breathed from one source. The air intake so induction noise may and will differ from a egr on car to a egr closed car.

This of course goes totally out of the window if you are just tuning the engine off while its still revving after pulling up in the car and not letting it idle first.

For reference the turbo vgt position on a standard and tuned map at idle is the same start point. Hope these words help the understanding.

Pete

Meanwhile, back on topic

Thanks Pete, I understand your explanation

Given that the noise is from the turbo as it is spooling down after shutoff from idle [and as stated above not directly after revving] I am still unclear as to why it's loud enough to clearly hear with the remap and not in standard tune. If it made the same amount of noise in standard tune that it does with the map it would be easily discernible over the EGR cycle etc. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

10th May 2013 8:52pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232

Air paths can be the only explnation of a different induction noise! as said the map does NOT adjust the turbo at idle speed at all.

Take the inlet pipe of the turbo and watch the compressor spin down while you listern to it.

10th May 2013 9:05pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

I'm probably going to sound like a broken record but...

Given that the turbo is not spinning any faster at idle with the map as opposed to the standard tune I still wonder why it is the turbo itself does not make any spooling down noise after engine shut down in standard tune but does with the map. I refer to mechanical rotation type noise from the turbo itself. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

10th May 2013 9:30pm

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