ZeDefender wrote:

Thanks for my certificate Tim

No problem at all - glad to help

ericvv wrote:

Just received copy by e-mail of that same certificate. Question is, it is certified by VCA, which is the UK vehicle approval authority.

Million dollar question.......... Does this approval only cover the UK, or is it automatically valid for all other EU countries like Germany, plus hopefully Switzerland too?

ericvv wrote:

Just received copy by e-mail of that same certificate. Question is, it is certified by VCA, which is the UK vehicle approval authority.

Million dollar question.......... Does this approval only cover the UK, or is it automatically valid for all other EU countries like Germany, plus hopefully Switzerland too?

mobilecentre wrote:

SteveG argues that the UK RVLR says you cannot use LED headlamps, IF his arguemnt was correct you would also not be able to use the original lamps because as far as the law is concerned they are the same becuase of the approval category.

By the way you already have your certficates

SteveG wrote:

mobilecentre wrote:

SteveG argues that the UK RVLR says you cannot use LED headlamps, IF his arguemnt was correct you would also not be able to use the original lamps because as far as the law is concerned they are the same becuase of the approval category.

By the way you already have your certficates

Hi Tim

1989 legislation is the current legislation for vehicle lighting in UK - agreed?

1989 legislation only allows for filament headlamps to be used legally in UK - agreed?

Neither LED or HID are filament bulbs- agreed?

UK accepts European Type approval for new cars, thus allowing new cars to have LED & HID headlamps providing they meet Requirements - agreed?

An e approved headlamp units just means its met the requirements for that unit - agreed?

E type approvals are there to provide consistent manufacturing and in situ performance. They have nothing to do with the legislation of local vehicle lighting requirements. - agreed?

ECE R112 - is specification for a headlamp with asymmetrical beam with a halogen or led light source. - agreed?

Simply fittng an e approved headlamp unit does not make it legal. You have to fit in line with regional lighting legislation agreed?

Retrofitting LED & HID headlamps in UK is only allowed by DfT if using an e approved headlamp unit design for correct light source and fitted with self levelling and washers - agreed?

You said earlier you have a formal exception for the JW Speaker units from VOSA. Is this the case, or are you just saying that you have the ECE R112 certification. As this is not the same thing?

Thanks Steve

As everyone else is getting bored lets simplify it.

Your statement was “LED headlamp units are just as illegal as HID lamps in UK if not fitted with self levelling and washers”

The justification you are using is a document advising (not legislative) about HID lamps and because you think that is what the DFT say.

As you use the word illegal then please show us either the specific statement from the DFT saying that LED headlamps are illegal without levelling and washers or the specific law preventing the use of LED headlamps within the aftermarket without the fitment of levelling or washing. I have already asked for this.

SteveG wrote:

Anyone who wants to know testing requirements of ECE R112 and luminosity levels etc you can see requirements guidelines on a link here ....
http://www.jasic.org/j/07_wp29/pdf/28th_Expert_Meeting_j.pdf

With th caveat that you accept this could not be correct.

I see what you are saying Tim about ECE R112 is for halogen and LED, so if The headlamps meet the same requirement then they can be fitted like a halogen unit. However, this interpretation is different for a formal exemption and also differs from what the DfT are stating for retro fitting e approved LED headlamps.

Cheers

Steve

ZeDefender wrote:

I am terrified to post this but is your issue that even though the headlamp meets all technical/safety regulations for being a headlamp, it doesn't necessarily mean you can stick it on any vehicle where you want?

This is true of my Hella driving lights that have an E approval conditional upon them being fitted according to certain dimensions of the vehicle

As I understand it, standard 7" filament headlamps are found in a number of vehicles (the same in our Defender, 1974 Beetle and Harley Davidsons). They all have the same features. Therefore, if the Speaker LED lamps are tested to comply (in comparison) with standard 7" filament lamps, then their E marking implies that they can be used as a universal direct replacement.

Sorry if that sounds daft

mobilecentre wrote:

As everyone else is getting bored lets simplify it.

Your statement was “LED headlamp units are just as illegal as HID lamps in UK if not fitted with self levelling and washers”

The justification you are using is a document advising (not legislative) about HID lamps and because you think that is what the DFT say.

As you use the word illegal then please show us either the specific statement from the DFT saying that LED headlamps are illegal without levelling and washers or the specific law preventing the use of LED headlamps within the aftermarket without the fitment of levelling or washing. I have already asked for this.