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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015   
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I never got my H  . I was a SNCO before serving with my first armoured unit so went straight in and did CRARRV and 513 commanders chits (they will be usefull when I get out  ).
Glyn   |
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15th Oct 2012 7:12am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149  
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It would depend on how heavy the trailer was really, if the whole rig was less than 3500KG (and the trailer was correctly rated) there was nothing for you to worry about. As all Defenders can tow 3500KG you have to work hard to go over that. Its more complex with series motors, as they are only rated at 2 Tons. (apart from very late series IIIs which are also 3500KG for some reason) A swb series can tow another swb, but not a lwb. |
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15th Oct 2012 7:44am |
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| AndyS Member Since: 18 Aug 2012 Location: London Posts: 595 
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They don't make things very clear, it goes on to state all sorts of categories and rules and as I can't be bothered to find my license and check what's on the back it's very confusing. I passed my test back in '86 so I'll just assume it's all good. |
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15th Oct 2012 8:35am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363 
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I always thought you had to get the driver's ticket before you could get the commander's. Bit of a swizz to miss out! |
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15th Oct 2012 8:40am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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Are you sure about that? Back in the early days the only statement LR made was that you shouldn't tow more than 4 tons, and provided that you had coupled power brakes and a ring and pin, or lunetter and pintle coupling rated appropriately I thought that was still the case (provided of course that all the other legal requirements such as plating, licencing and driver's hours are met). Back in the 1970s and 1980s I regularly towed up to 3.5 tons with Series 1 80" and have spec sheets for the vehicle to show that this is OK by the manufacturers recommendations (I wouldn't do it now though since the Puma is a better tug and the 80" is so slow (and hard to stop) plus its chassis has disintegrated, awaiting rebuild). I think that most of the hassles stem from b*****y Europe! |
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15th Oct 2012 8:47am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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Passed my test in the 1970s (and this thread is really making me feel old!) and have B, BE, C, CE, C1, C1E(107), D1(101), D1E(101, 119), fklnp
The 107, 101 and 119 codes relate to the fact that the C1/C1E and D1/D1E entitlements originate from grandfather rights and are therefore different to the entitlement you get through taking the current tests: 101 = not for hire or reward 107 = not more than 8250kg 119 - weight limit does not apply Full list of licence codes here. The C1E(107) is of course meaningless as long as I maintain the CE entitlement. A poll of forum members' ages would be interesting! Last edited by blackwolf on 15th Oct 2012 9:01am. Edited 1 time in total |
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15th Oct 2012 9:01am |
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| megatoad Member Since: 07 Jan 2012 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 358 
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Take a look in the Defender handbook So long as the trailer is braked appropriately for the weight ( and you passed your test pre '97) any Defender has been rated by the manufacturer to up to 4000kg. I believe that some of the pre 200tdi Defenders (other than V  were only limited to 2500Kg but hte introduction of the tdi and rear disk brakes brought all up to the 4tonne limit |
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15th Oct 2012 9:01am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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I think that the same is true for many of the pre-Defenders, specifically S1, S11 models. I think the interference started around the S11A/S111 era but could well be wrong.
Towing 3.5 tons with a 2-litre 80" is an unforgettable experience! |
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15th Oct 2012 9:03am |
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| SGH Member Since: 27 Sep 2010 Location: Hellingly-Sussex Posts: 1527
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Al these on my licence..
A Motorcycles, with or without a sidecar. B1 Motor tricycles or quadbikes weighing up to 550kg (with no passenger). B Motor cars or light vans with up to eight passenger seats and weighing up to 3500kg. A light trailer can be attached. C1 Vehicles weighing between 3500kg and 7500kg. A trailer weighing up to 750kg can be attached. D1 Small passenger-carrying vehicles with nine to 16 passenger seats. A trailer weighing up to 750kg can be attached. D Any bus with more than eight passenger seats. A trailer weighing up to 750kg can be attached. B+E Motor cars or light vans with up to eight passenger seats, weighing up to 3500kg and pulling a heavy trailer. C1+E Vehicles of between 3500kg and 7500kg pulling a trailer weighing over 750kg. (Combined weight of no more than 2000kg.) D1+E Small passenger-carrying vehicles with nine to 16 passenger seats and pulling a trailer over 750kg. (Combined weight of no more than 12000kg.) f Agricultural tractors k Pedestrian-controlled vehicles l Electric vehicles n Vehicles used for very short distances on public roads p Mopeds 993 Varioram - Guards Red Defender 2.5 300TDI 110 HCP - Keswick Green Defender 2.2 TDCI 130 HCP - Orkney Grey - GONE Discovery 4 SDV6 HSE LUX - Corris Grey/Black Pack - GONE Discovery 4 SDV6 HSE LUX - Montaciano Red/Black Pack - GONE |
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15th Oct 2012 9:14am |
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| megatoad Member Since: 07 Jan 2012 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 358
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Correct all series motors were well under 3 tonnes officially.
I remember moving a friends 110 on a trailer behind my 11A 109 sith a Perkins 4203 down into an up the other side of Sowerby Bridge. Scary descending into the town, 3rd gear bottom box climbing out of the valley 
But yes the plate on the vehicle did say something like 2.25 tonne towing max despite having the 6cyl brakes. But then the Police understood what Land Rovers were then and left us to get on with it
'twas only the early nineties 
As to the C1E I think there has been a transcription error I think it should read 3500-7500 + trailer with MAM not exceeding 12000kg e.g. 7.5 tonner and 4.5 tonne trailer, not that I have driven that myself. |
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15th Oct 2012 9:20am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580
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Whereas you may have grandfather rights to drive certain vehicles would you be safe to drive that class of vehicle? Also I believe it is now illegal to be a supervising driver on a class of vehicles that you have not past the actual test on. From a safety point of view a good idea. Would you want a driver who has never towed supervising a learner towing driver just because of 'grandfathers right'? A poll of ages?? 
Brendan |
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15th Oct 2012 9:40am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149
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I have seen enough series III data plates to know they were limited to 2 Tons. Back then it was a "reccomended towing weight" make of that what you will, but I wouldn't image you would have much of a leg to stand on if you exceeded it and something went wrong. These plates are both from Series III 1-Tons, with fat brakes and servo as standard.
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge My series III data book/ hand book also shows weights significantly lower than 3500KG, let me see if I can find the pic. Click image to enlarge Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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15th Oct 2012 9:43am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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It was definitely more relaxed in the old days! You are right re C1E, 12000kg gross combined limit unless obtained through grandfather rights in which case it will have the 107 modifier and be limited to 8250kg gross combined weight. |
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15th Oct 2012 9:45am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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Not sure if you're being hypothetical or specific. If the latter, the fact that I have CE should put your mind at rest. If hypothetical, it's a bit irrelevant really. When I took my "car" test, the test allowed successful candidates to drive vehicles up to 7.5 tons gross and cominations up to 8.25 tons gross. Therefore such people (myself included) did take a test for this type of vehicle, just as if we had taken a C1E test today. By the standards of the time it was considered satisfactory and adequate. I drove many thousands of miles in 7.5 tonners before taking my (then) HGV1 test. If you're arguing that a test that was satisfactory in the 70s is no longer sufficient due to changed conditions, you may have a point, however it is my experience that on the whole (and there are of course exceptions) the standard of driving then was much higher than it is in the modern, supposedly more strict, licencing regime. I do not believe that grandfather rights present the slightest risk to road safety today, when the roads are overrun with morons and people with absolutely no sense of responsibility! And why should a driver who has driven hundreds of thousands of miles towing in all conditions be prohibited from supervising a learner, simply because they didn't take a (generally superficial and pointelss) test that wasn't even invented at the time they started towing and that they have never been required to take? |
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15th Oct 2012 10:00am |
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