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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Absolute zero?
Does anyone know just how cold it can be outside (parked) before a Defender "fails to launch"?

My Puma sounded a bit rough at -22ºC Shocked this morning (soon ran fine after a couple of minutes though)...

Matt Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121707 6th Feb 2012 7:50am
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BigRuss



Member Since: 15 May 2010
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2785
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
I beelieve land rover sit there test vehicles in refrigerated containers in Norway at night to -40 c Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black
Post #121714 6th Feb 2012 8:07am
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Many thanks Thumbs Up
Matt Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121715 6th Feb 2012 8:23am
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Zagato
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Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
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United Kingdom 
I concur (always wanted to say that Very Happy )
Post #121729 6th Feb 2012 10:51am
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MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2665
United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey
My last (TD5) Disco sounded awful after a prolonged (2 days) stop at -16.

The fuel pump made an awful noise trying to get to grips with the diesel which would have been turning to wax. Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Post #121769 6th Feb 2012 11:55am
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Well, I was wondering this morning about a "rhythmic grunt" every few seconds - thought it might be the diesel pump or something. Does "modern" diesel really get so waxy down at -20? If so, doesn't stuff get knackered? Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121775 6th Feb 2012 12:07pm
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BigRuss



Member Since: 15 May 2010
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2785
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
As we've said on here before, modern diesel will start to wax at -9 C ish but in some contoured they run winter mixes but dependant on where you get it from you probably can get a tank of summer diesel in the dead of winter. Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black
Post #121776 6th Feb 2012 12:12pm
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MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2665
United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey
Quote:
Winter DieselFor the "temperate" climatic zones the EN 590 standard defines six classes from A to F. In Central and Western Europe the Winter Diesel (Winterdiesel, diesel d'hiver) must meet Class F conditions atleast from the beginning of December to the end of February. During a transitional period (mostly October and April) a lower Class must be met.

Tests in the Alpine regions have shown that the diesel fuel offered at gas stations extends the law requirements by some degrees showing a CFPP of -27° C in all samples.[8] The CloudPoint is not specified in EN 590 although DIN 51603 for heating oil specifies a CloudPoint below +1 °C for CFPP -10 °C. Current additives allow a CFPP of -20 °C to be based on diesel fuel with a CloudPoint of -7 °C.

Class A Class B Class C Class D Class E Class F
CFPP value +5 °C 0 °C -5 °C -10 °C -15 °C -20 °C
CloudPoint (not specified in EN 590)
 Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Post #121777 6th Feb 2012 12:13pm
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BigRuss



Member Since: 15 May 2010
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2785
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Zagato wrote:
I concur (always wanted to say that Very Happy )


Ner Ner Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black
Post #121779 6th Feb 2012 12:14pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
I can just imagine the reaction from the Neanderthal running the local garage when I ask him what CFPP value his diesel has Shocked
Wish me luck, it's been nice knowing you all Laughing

p.s. and thanks for the info Wink Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121785 6th Feb 2012 12:27pm
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party monkey



Member Since: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Oxon.
Posts: 1311
England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue
German winter spec diesel has to be no 'warmer' than -7 deg C Cloud point and -22 deg C CFPP (Cold filter plug point). Some German co-mingled systems require a marketing spec of -25 on CFPP.

By comparison UK winter spec cloud is no 'warmer' than -5 Deg C and CFPP is -15 deg C .

Scandi countries from memory start from about -20 cloud and -30 CFPP but could well be even lower than that Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless.
Post #121801 6th Feb 2012 1:13pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
So if it gets much colder here, I'll need to by my fuel from Norway Shocked Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121807 6th Feb 2012 1:50pm
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party monkey



Member Since: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Oxon.
Posts: 1311
England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue
ZeDefender wrote:
So if it gets much colder here, I'll need to by my fuel from Norway Shocked


Go for Finland.... no warmer than.....

-29 cloud / -34 CFPP Bow down Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless.
Post #121814 6th Feb 2012 2:30pm
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TheTechnobear



Member Since: 28 Jan 2011
Location: Guadix, Spain
Posts: 54
Spain 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
I got caught out here in southern spain (in the mountains) 2 days ago,
we hit -9 at night (for a couple of nights), 110 wouldnt move, probably waxed up...would idle at about 1k, but no more.
Eventually managed to get it into the sun, it warmed up, then would go, albeit with some initial misfiring.
My FL wouldnt even turnover.

Lived in switzerland for over 9 years, never a problem Smile

so i will now always park in the sun when its going to get cold, im assuming they dont bother using winter fuel here.
Post #121837 6th Feb 2012 5:20pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731
Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
As a matter of interest, can you add anything yourself to depress the CFPP (i.e. something commercially available)? Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121875 6th Feb 2012 7:06pm
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