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jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8026

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

well 4 days later, they have rung to say they have stripped the diff and taken some pictures(!) and LR technical have kindly let me have authority for another diff, its just a shame there arent any around it would seem.

They didnt know if the one that came out was 2 or 4 pin - well the bloke on the phone didn't know anyway! and he didnt know if a 2 or 4 pin was going back in instead. i have tried the same route as Andrew ref the 4 pin so we will see. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

12th May 2009 2:56pm

Gabriel Boff

Member Since: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Rio Grande do Sul
Posts: 95

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

Right, right, I know, thanks a lot.

I didn't know that LR have this option for 2 or 4 pins.

Good to know.

regards

12th May 2009 5:18pm

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

Hi,

just to clear this up,

all Puma front diffs are TBB000250 which is a 2 pin diff, this can be upgraded to the stronger 4 pin diff TBB000280,

as above for the 90 rears,

the 110 rears are all 4 pin and are TBB000270, this is the shorter housing design like the P38 diffs, not interchangable with the front 'normal' longer housing,

The noise issues could either be poor manufacture of the ring and pinion or incorrect assembly, Dave

12th May 2009 8:17pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2415

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

I heard LR had t some point some issues with the manufacturing of crowns and pinions. Is it true? Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

12th May 2009 8:28pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8026

Cheers for the update Dave, very much appreciated. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

12th May 2009 9:00pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

ashtrans wrote:
Hi,

just to clear this up,

all Puma front diffs are TBB000250 which is a 2 pin diff, this can be upgraded to the stronger 4 pin diff TBB000280,

as above for the 90 rears,

the 110 rears are all 4 pin and are TBB000270, this is the shorter housing design like the P38 diffs, not interchangable with the front 'normal' longer housing,

The noise issues could either be poor manufacture of the ring and pinion or incorrect assembly,

Thanks

12th May 2009 9:52pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

Anyway to get the 4 pin under warranty without it going bang

Mike

12th May 2009 10:50pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2415

The difference seems to be around 300 quid! Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

12th May 2009 11:40pm

markalpha

Member Since: 23 Apr 2008
Location: Downham Market
Posts: 690

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Thanks Andrew and Ashtrans we are all alot wiser, maybe you could inform LR and tell them where they are going wrong, ashtrans

13th May 2009 2:41pm

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

Hi,

a while back we bought a batch of new boxed landrover diffs, the type we got were the 3 bolt flange version but as we sell more of the 4 bolt flange type we swap this flange and convert them.

We were doing a batch of these this morning and due to this noise thread I though we would just check one of these new ones.

As a part of the rebuild process we 'blue' the gear teeth to check the contact patch and adjust the pinion height as required to get this contact patch correct to make sure the gears will be quiet.

here is what we found :

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

I am not sure if you can see it but this is bad, very bad,

I cannot be sure if this is due to incorrect manufacture or incorrect pinion height, to answer this we need to chnage the pinion height to see if we can get a good contact patch, if not we would assume poor manufacture and scrap the ring and pinion, either way we would not send this out the door as it would almost definatly be noisy.

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

Dave

15th May 2009 11:39am

Grockle

Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Peak District National Park
Posts: 2266

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

Engineers blue not seen that since my apprentice days 2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up.

15th May 2009 11:42am

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2415

ashtrans wrote:
Hi,

a while back we bought a batch of new boxed landrover diffs, the type we got were the 3 bolt flange version but as we sell more of the 4 bolt flange type we swap this flange and convert them.

We were doing a batch of these this morning and due to this noise thread I though we would just check one of these new ones.

As a part of the rebuild process we 'blue' the gear teeth to check the contact patch and adjust the pinion height as required to get this contact patch correct to make sure the gears will be quiet.

here is what we found :

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

I am not sure if you can see it but this is bad, very bad,

I cannot be sure if this is due to incorrect manufacture or incorrect pinion height, to answer this we need to chnage the pinion height to see if we can get a good contact patch, if not we would assume poor manufacture and scrap the ring and pinion, either way we would not send this out the door as it would almost definatly be noisy.

Dave:

Any difference on the crown and pinion with the ones on the latest 110"-130" pre-Puma?

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

15th May 2009 12:41pm

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

Hi,

this is on a 'rover' type diff, ie 90, front and rear and 110 front,

I don't have any new 110 rear diffs to check but I wouldn't be surprized if we saw a similar thing, Dave

15th May 2009 1:04pm

mhasting2004

Member Since: 07 Dec 2008
Location: Gosford
Posts: 29

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Hi ashtrans

Could you explain to us that aren't experts in diffs what it is that is really bad in the contact pattern shown? I'm only a 10 minute google search expert and from that it looks that the contact is a bit high on the tooth but well centered. Or is it that it seems to be such a small contact area?

I'm about to get a new rear diff put in this week and I am wondering is it common practice to blue up a gear prior to instalation to check it, or do most dealers Ass-U-Me they are right from factory?

Cheers

Mark

18th May 2009 2:14am

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2415

AndrewS wrote:
markalpha I was lead to believe that they are 2 pin. The reason behind this was that's what I was told by LRCC. When I asked for the diffs to be up graded to 4 pins (I offered to pay the Extra) I was told NO by LR as it would invalidate my warranty as the vehicle is not standard I know I could not believe it either. However Ashcroft Transmissions has posted on this forum saying that the diffs are all 4 Pin.

Gabriel Boff
Check out this link you will see an animated image showing a working 2 pin Diff. The red objects in the animation are what's called the 'pins'. If you were to add 2 more 'pins' between the existing ones you will then have a stronger 4 pin diff.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

all 110" are 4-pin (rear) Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

18th May 2009 10:57pm

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