H1Tad wrote:

Quote:

I guess some people are also blind to the truth, even when starring them in the face too Laughing

Sorry but I work in the pharma research industry as a data architect. I am very much opposed to taking an isolated, context-less dataset and automatically assuming that the numbers mean what I want them to mean.

The only thing you can extrapolate from your data series is that disco sales declined while defender sales rose. Whether there is a relationship between the two is - again, speculation.

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

Especially when it is easy to match up with real world people who traded in RRS or Disco's for a new Defender.

Therefore "observationally" I've not seen an influx of brand new buyers to the JLR brand. Just existing customer buying this model instead of that.

zilch wrote:

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

Especially when it is easy to match up with real world people who traded in RRS or Disco's for a new Defender.

Therefore "observationally" I've not seen an influx of brand new buyers to the JLR brand. Just existing customer buying this model instead of that.

Outside of the data, when I ordered ours back in 2019 just after the launch, as a replacement for our
2010 RRS (which we still have), our dealer told us at the time that many of the orders where by
existing customers, a large chunk discovery owners, but who had not and would not make the move from the D4 to the D5 irrespective of subtle discount offers. The D5 was deemed by many as not a true
Disco, but more RRS like. The dealer’s perspective was the Defender helped them retain customers
who would more than likely move to the Japanese brands once their D3/4’s where due replacement..
so the Defender was good initially for brand retention and then some modest customer expansion in
the Aussie market

Quote:

I was reading today that UK EV sales are showing healthy numbers BUT likely because of the UK punitively fines imposed on car companies that don't make the EV targets

TexasRover wrote:

I was reading today that UK EV sales are showing healthy numbers BUT likely because of the UK punitively fines imposed on car companies that don't make the EV targets: Car companies are registering cars without selling them in order to avoid the fines.

So this data can be all skewed for reasons other than customer's natural purchasing behaviour

Quote:

No, that would be correlation, not speculation.

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

Agree the actual vehicle is what Land Rover needed, the D5 is ok, I don't hate it, but what a cock-up of a model it is when you look at what D3/4 owners actually wanted.

For some reason in the car industry, there is this weird belief that models need to evolve and be moved up a segment or two. No idea why a vehicle can't just be what it was and let new models be introduced into new segments.

This is what I don’t get about LR’s (Gerry McGovern’s?) decision to recreate the spirit of the Defender? Why did they need to do it?

Many people have said what a success the ND has been, and what a great vehicle it is, which, if that’s true, would have been the case come what may. So would it have been any different had it been branded ‘Discovery’? No, it wouldn’t. Because it absolutely meets what most Discovery owners are looking for, and importantly weren’t getting from the D5. Most, there will always be exceptions.

This would then have allowed LR to redevelop the Defender in the image of the <2016 model, but better. Better reliability ( ), better power, better comfort. In essence, the Grenadier, but with better modularity and at a better price point. And it could then have tapped into all its old markets which it once monopolised: military, police, utilities, NGOs etc.

LR could have had double-bubble. Increased sales from an excellent new SUV that would likely have been as good as they are for the ND now, but they’d also have had the sales from an all new utility Defender, which if Grenadier sales are anything to go by, could have been as many as 20k units per year…and that would be without tapping into the military/police/MR/NGO/etc markets. The UKAF alone have 15k LRs which they’ve had to extend the life of because they can’t find a suitable replacement.

But no, LR ignored its legacy, turned a blind eye to its DNA, threw out tens of thousands of loyal customers, (private as well as commercial) to create another SUV that is clearly NOT a Defender, and (IMHO) IS a Discovery. It was hugely short sighted as it could have had the best of both worlds.

Personally, I think this is GmcG’s doing. I genuinely think he couldn’t abide that there was a vehicle in his fleet that didn’t have his DNA in it, and also a vehicle didn’t appeal to his image of LR being a luxury brand aimed at successful, urbane, beautiful people. The idea of an entirely classless workhorse that could be all things to all people, was anathema to him.

So whilst the Defender is LR’s most successful model (ever?) it could have had equal success in unit number terms as the Disco, and then an improved Defender would have retained old defender owners, plus reclaimed those utility markets. Whilst the idea of model evolution is valid, there is also an arguement that certain vehicles need to remain, in essence, the same. The best example of this is the Porsche 911, which as a legacy vehicle is basically the same. One could also make the same argument for the F150, which whilst clearly an all new truck, is basically the same ‘concept’ or ‘purpose’ as the original model from 1948. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

dspuk wrote:

Quote:

I was reading today that UK EV sales are showing healthy numbers BUT likely because of the UK punitively fines imposed on car companies that don't make the EV targets

It’s an odd one. The market here has become flooded with cheaper Chinese made EV’s. The tax breaks for ownership have reduced dramatically though and the charging network remains fragmented and woeful.

Dealer registrations might be on the up but their actual ownership seems to be fading.

Sales are swaying more towards hybrids here, not as “mild” as the Defenders, but mild enough to not reduce power but still have some sort of tax breaks, be it private sales costs or company car.