 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma Cutting out while idling |
 
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2626   
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Welcome Karoo, you will find plenty of good advice and information here
Considering what you have done already, you're probably looking at the VCV as the culprit. Many of us here have had this issue and replacing the VCV valve usually cures it. You will have to do a pilot learn after the replacemenet, so you will need LR software, or a GAP IId tool. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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30th Jun 2020 7:26am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324 
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It's not essential to do the pilot learn - the system sorts itself out after a short while. Plenty of people on here have done this without any issues. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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30th Jun 2020 7:40am |
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| williamthedog Member Since: 29 Dec 2012 Location: south wales Posts: 3441 
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^^ as above, I've done mine without the relearn, no issues at all.
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30th Jun 2020 8:17am |
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| keef9t Member Since: 13 Mar 2016 Location: manchester Posts: 170 
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And me, no pilot learn. Ran smoothly straight away.
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1st Jul 2020 8:41pm |
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| John_mx Member Since: 12 Aug 2024 Location: Liverpool Posts: 10 
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Any one get to this bottom of this?
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10th Oct 2024 6:51am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20270
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Just to add, no pilot learn needed for VCV replacement my end either.
Fitted, ran just fine. |
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10th Oct 2024 8:12am |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2126 
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from previous threads on here the VCV will "self learn" so no real issue.....
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18th Oct 2024 8:41am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20270
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It will self learn for sure.
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18th Oct 2024 4:10pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 497
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Perhaps someone will tell me exactly what you are doing when you do pump learns. And pilot learn.. can you see what parameters you are actually adjusting and if so what are they..? I dont have the tools that allow me to do it if required...am i right in thinking it can only be done if the ecu has the original map .. I've read a bit about coding of injectors so think I've got that bit..
I also hear the term self learn and while I'm not up to speed on electronics I take that to mean the electronics set their own acceptable parameters for the fuel and air requirements , but they must be based on something..like engine speed at a given load.. Anyone any input.. ??? |
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18th Oct 2024 4:35pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20270
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The ECU communicates with various sensors, and that self learns to keep those signals in the correct parameters, if there is any failures, that will flag DTC’s if parameters are exceeded.
The ECU then self calculates the best performance based on what signals it is receiving. Typically this happens over a little time after various start up and shut downs. Bearing in mind the VCV doesn’t flag DTC’s, but all the same is performance critical. Which is why it can be difficult to find it as being at fault, but instead best traced by understanding typical failure symptoms. There are some instances where phantom DTC’s can be produced, for example a faulty EGR, can creat MAF fault codes, despite the EGR is the fault, possibly showing up as both being at fault but in realities the faulty item is throwing out parameters with another item. It’ll self learn, regardless of what map is loaded, but a new VCV will usually work really well out of the box, but it’ll self learn to peak performance not long after. In the real world you’ll not notice the learn processes, but you will notice how much power is back when the new VCV has been fitted if the previous is not running as good as it should do. |
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18th Oct 2024 5:21pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 497
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Cheers... 👍
I have def seen a good number of comments regarding the pump and pilot learns having to be done with the original map in place and not the modified one... and i think it was bas site recommended the standard map rather than tuned map be used while preforming the learns.. I only remember because I recall thinking that although it's sometimes possible to reload the standard map, if you have had certain features modified or deleted and physically removed or altered on the engine then reloading a standard map may produce fault codes that prevent the process from been undertaken anyway... |
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19th Oct 2024 6:11am |
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| John_mx Member Since: 12 Aug 2024 Location: Liverpool Posts: 10
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I am thinking it can only be done on an original LR map, I've tried to do them on mine with aftermarket map and it will not learn |
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19th Oct 2024 5:41pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 497
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That ties in with a fair few comments I've read on various forums..
I'm really just curious as to what a pump learn actually does..as the vcv valve is the only adjustable device on the pump it must involve some sort of adjustment to the operating parameters of that valve?? |
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19th Oct 2024 7:20pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17311 
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The pump learn is a process which enables the ECM to calibrate the VCV, i.e., when the ECM applies a particular signal to the VCV what is the effect on the fuel rail pressure. It uses the result to update the appropriate mapping array in its NVR, overwriting current values as required. The injector learn is a similar process to calibrate the injector firing signal to the volume of fuel injected.
In the early years of the Puma there was a belief in the tuning industry that a new array was written at every calibration with the result that the process could only be carried out a finite number of times after which a new ECM was required but this doesn't seem to be the case. It is possible to calibrate pump and/or injectors with certain aftermarket maps (I've done it with my BAS map on) but the process is finicky at the best of times with no map. I suspect that some maps will cause it to fail. Since the ECM is.always self-adaptive and the pump learn therefore isn't strictly necessary anyway it's much easier not to bother. |
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19th Oct 2024 9:50pm |
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