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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20453

United Kingdom 
Personally I don’t think you can beat the burble of American Muscle, even diesel.
Detroit V8, Powerstroke, personal favourite Cummins etc.

Someone not far from me has a Mustang 2008 I believe in blue, a proper one not one of those E ones. No Guts, No Glory.
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Post #1045435 10th Sep 2024 2:53pm
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stevemfr



Member Since: 18 Sep 2022
Location: Strasbpurg
Posts: 140

France 
CincyRovers1 wrote:
...It isn't fake, it is the sound of the actual engine, but sent through a tube and amplified in the cabin. It works incredibly well and it is the reason why modern turbocharged 911s don't sound turbocharged from the inside.

I know. That is exactly what I was referring to. My 911s are pre-sound symposer, but I remember thinking the same things when I read about it's introduction as when I read about enhancing engine noise through speakers the first time. But that lead me down the rabbit hole of self-reflection and DIY exhaust building that I described above and suddenly it made more sense.

Just out of curiosity, do you feel better about the sound symposer because it's "real" engine noise you're hearing vs "enahnced"? I don't mean that in a negative sense at all - I really am just curious.

@custom90 While I appreciate all sorts of motor sounds, my favorite is still a 90° V8. My Camaro (which I still own Wink ) has a 350 with headers and a 2 1/2" exhaust running through late 70's Z28 resonators (the Z28s had cats prior to the resonators). And I think that it sounds better than any super- or hypercar I've ever heard.

Sorry to the OP for all the OT. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s,
2 FL1s and a L663 on the way
Post #1045440 10th Sep 2024 4:12pm
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CincyRovers1



Member Since: 30 Nov 2023
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 85

United States 
I don't mind it at all on the turbocharged cars. They have the better performance but inside it still sounds like an old school NA 911. 991.1 cars I could take it or leave it. It doesn't bother me, but I don't find it to be necessary, but I think it is great with the 991.2 and newer cars. 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟏 𝐃𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝟏𝟏𝟎 𝐒 𝐏𝟑𝟎𝟎 (Pangea Green over Acorn/Lunar)
𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟑 𝐏𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐒 (Dolomite Silver over Black/Bordeaux Red)
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟕 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝐋𝐮𝐱𝐮𝐫𝐲 𝐒𝐢𝟔 (Aintree Green over Vintage Tan/Ebony) - Gone
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟏 𝐋𝐑𝟒 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝟓.𝟎 (Ipanema Sand over Almond/Arabica) - Gone
Post #1045452 10th Sep 2024 5:06pm
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stevemfr



Member Since: 18 Sep 2022
Location: Strasbpurg
Posts: 140

France 
I meant to ask - do you feel better about it because it is a real, if finely tuned, intake sound vs a fake 'enhanced' engine sound through the speakers? 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s,
2 FL1s and a L663 on the way
Post #1045598 12th Sep 2024 12:11am
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H1Tad



Member Since: 20 Jul 2024
Location: Maine
Posts: 132

United States 
I don't think this is a very controversial statement when I say that people prefer authenticity instead of fakeness.

Piping in artificially generated engine noise, even if its pleasant to the ears, just rubs some people the wrong way. If they hadn't known it was fake, they otherwise wouldn't have cared and continued to live their lives in merry acoustic bliss more than likely.

The "symposer" and other acoustic "enhancements" are still using the engine suck-bang-blow cycle as the source of the sound - kind of like straight-piping or adding resonators to the exhaust. That's not fake - its just taking the existing sound and making it better.

Using speakers is just making it up whole cloth - independent from the mechanical function of the motor. If the sound can be generated while the engine is off and sitting still, thats when you know its fake. 2022 Defender 110 SE P400 Tasman Blue Expedition and Cold weather package
2003 Hummer H1 P400 Firehouse Red
2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser
Post #1045599 12th Sep 2024 1:06am
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Nuclear Nick



Member Since: 21 Aug 2021
Location: Southwest
Posts: 285

United Kingdom 
CincyRovers1 wrote:
stevemfr wrote:
I don't know why everyone gets so excited about the engine sound "enhancement". Porsche, Ferrari and the rest spend a significant amount of time and money engineering the sound of their cars, both intake and exhaust. I have not checked lately, but I can easily imagine that the SUVs from those manufacturers have "enhanced" sound as well.

As a matter of fact, I spent some time listening to various friend's cars before building the exhaust for my modified Camaro at the age of 19 and, come to think of it, purchased an IMSA (INSA? I think they were also sold as Monza) exhaust for my V6 Capri at the age of 16 after hearing one on a friend's Capri. (I just dated myself, didn't I?)

Emotions sell cars, and the noise is a a part of those emotions. Yes, you could call it cheating, but at the end of the day, who really cares? At least it's not adding any weight Razz



I have a Porsche Macan S and there is no fake engine noise played through the speakers.


Not through the speakers but there is an 'engine sound actuator' to 'enhance' the engine sound in the cabin.
Porsche have declared in the past that fake engine sound through the sound system, at least in ICE cars, is against their principles. 23.5MY 90 V8 Carpathian grey
Post #1045611 12th Sep 2024 8:33am
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CincyRovers1



Member Since: 30 Nov 2023
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 85

United States 
stevemfr wrote:
I meant to ask - do you feel better about it because it is a real, if finely tuned, intake sound vs a fake 'enhanced' engine sound through the speakers?

I do feel better that it's real. Amplified genuine sound is in my opinion so much better than a digitally enhanced sound through the stereo. 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟏 𝐃𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝟏𝟏𝟎 𝐒 𝐏𝟑𝟎𝟎 (Pangea Green over Acorn/Lunar)
𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟑 𝐏𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐒 (Dolomite Silver over Black/Bordeaux Red)
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟕 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝐋𝐮𝐱𝐮𝐫𝐲 𝐒𝐢𝟔 (Aintree Green over Vintage Tan/Ebony) - Gone
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟏 𝐋𝐑𝟒 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝟓.𝟎 (Ipanema Sand over Almond/Arabica) - Gone
Post #1045629 12th Sep 2024 12:54pm
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CincyRovers1



Member Since: 30 Nov 2023
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 85

United States 
Nuclear Nick wrote:
CincyRovers1 wrote:
stevemfr wrote:
I don't know why everyone gets so excited about the engine sound "enhancement". Porsche, Ferrari and the rest spend a significant amount of time and money engineering the sound of their cars, both intake and exhaust. I have not checked lately, but I can easily imagine that the SUVs from those manufacturers have "enhanced" sound as well.

As a matter of fact, I spent some time listening to various friend's cars before building the exhaust for my modified Camaro at the age of 19 and, come to think of it, purchased an IMSA (INSA? I think they were also sold as Monza) exhaust for my V6 Capri at the age of 16 after hearing one on a friend's Capri. (I just dated myself, didn't I?)

Emotions sell cars, and the noise is a a part of those emotions. Yes, you could call it cheating, but at the end of the day, who really cares? At least it's not adding any weight Razz



I have a Porsche Macan S and there is no fake engine noise played through the speakers.


Not through the speakers but there is an 'engine sound actuator' to 'enhance' the engine sound in the cabin.
Porsche have declared in the past that fake engine sound through the sound system, at least in ICE cars, is against their principles.

You are referring to the Sound Symposer that I mentioned earlier in the thread. My Macan doesn't have that. I don't have PSE and the car is still pretty loud and the exhaust does have a valve that opens in Sport and Sport +. The old euro-spec Macan S Diesel did have a device on the firewall similar to VW's Soundaktor (and had actual speakers in the muffler when fitted with PSE). 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟏 𝐃𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝟏𝟏𝟎 𝐒 𝐏𝟑𝟎𝟎 (Pangea Green over Acorn/Lunar)
𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟑 𝐏𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐒 (Dolomite Silver over Black/Bordeaux Red)
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟕 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝐋𝐮𝐱𝐮𝐫𝐲 𝐒𝐢𝟔 (Aintree Green over Vintage Tan/Ebony) - Gone
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟏 𝐋𝐑𝟒 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝟓.𝟎 (Ipanema Sand over Almond/Arabica) - Gone
Post #1045632 12th Sep 2024 1:13pm
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Nuclear Nick



Member Since: 21 Aug 2021
Location: Southwest
Posts: 285

United Kingdom 
No, I understand the Sound Symposer, it's fitted to my 991.2 GTS. Porsche have fitted the sound actuator to many models, including my now gone 2017 Macan Turbo, although that did have PSE.

I think we're agreeing violently here (LOL) but the main point is that while Porsche ICE cars don't have fake sound through the speakers some models will have the firewall shaker. It's Item 54 in the attached Macan parts list.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 23.5MY 90 V8 Carpathian grey
Post #1045647 12th Sep 2024 3:48pm
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Philm



Member Since: 19 Jun 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 171

United Kingdom 
Perhaps this should be moved to it's own thread, not hijacking someone else's
Post #1045650 12th Sep 2024 4:00pm
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CincyRovers1



Member Since: 30 Nov 2023
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 85

United States 
Nuclear Nick wrote:
No, I understand the Sound Symposer, it's fitted to my 991.2 GTS. Porsche have fitted the sound actuator to many models, including my now gone 2017 Macan Turbo, although that did have PSE.

I think we're agreeing violently here (LOL) but the main point is that while Porsche ICE cars don't have fake sound through the speakers some models will have the firewall shaker. It's Item 54 in the attached Macan parts list.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge

Interesting; that looks exactly like the Soundaktor used in the other VAG products. I did some digging and turns out the Soundaktor doesn't play fake engine noise, but rather amplifies it through a transducer which is like a speaker without the cone. I've been in many VAG products with the Soundaktor with I4 engines and it gives that warble sound like an I5. I don't get any of that with the Macan. There's a possibility that it was removed in the 95B.3, but I'll take a look at the firewall when I get home to confirm whether or not I have one. 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟏 𝐃𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝟏𝟏𝟎 𝐒 𝐏𝟑𝟎𝟎 (Pangea Green over Acorn/Lunar)
𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟑 𝐏𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐒 (Dolomite Silver over Black/Bordeaux Red)
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟕 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝐋𝐮𝐱𝐮𝐫𝐲 𝐒𝐢𝟔 (Aintree Green over Vintage Tan/Ebony) - Gone
𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟏 𝐋𝐑𝟒 𝐇𝐒𝐄 𝟓.𝟎 (Ipanema Sand over Almond/Arabica) - Gone
Post #1045656 12th Sep 2024 4:55pm
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sasa



Member Since: 05 Mar 2024
Location: ceska lipa
Posts: 52

Czech Republic 
fake engine sound
hi, if you turned off the fake engine sound did you notice any difference? Did it help? I have a 3.0D and I'm not sure, maybe only under more engine throttle
Post #1046589 23rd Sep 2024 3:49pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2859

United Kingdom 
Philm wrote:
Perhaps this should be moved to it's own thread, not hijacking someone else's


Don't worry, it's quite an interesting read!
l think we figured out early on in the thread that fitting a subwoofer to a Defender that didn't come with one, was not straightforward and couldn't easily be done.
Post #1046812 25th Sep 2024 7:49pm
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Dammitdeano



Member Since: 07 Nov 2023
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 13

Australia 
nebc100 wrote:
Do you know the reference code to look for in the GAP ccf?


EUCD-121 Subwoofer
Subwoofer
Post #1050160 29th Oct 2024 10:46am
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