TexasRover wrote:

lightning wrote:

l wouldn't call the new Land Cruiser "fleeting" it's got a heritage going back decades.

That looks a lovely vehicle and l actually think it may look better then the Defender. Let's see if the £50,000 start price materialises. The new Defender was supposed to start at £44,000 and the Grenadier lead-in price was £50,000.

lf the Land Cruiser is £50,000 it's likely going to take sales from Land Rover and lneos.

The Land Cruiser legacy is simply being milked, just like LR is doing with the Defender. They are shifting the target audience to maximize sales. I am sure it's a fine vehicle, like pretty much every vehicle on the market today. With 50k there are plenty options.

The Grenadier though IS different; it is appealing to (a shrinking) hard core adventure/offroad/utilitarian market. I really hope they survive because on paper it's not an attractive proposition, everything is against them, tax, emissions, regulations, etc. But I would want one because it's different, just like my Defender is different.

You would buy a Toyota Prada because it's a sensible, safe and a little boring and because your wife would approve. Everyone knows that the guy driving a Grenadier didn't ask his wife if she agrees. He just bought it because he wanted one.

The Toyota will come and go, the Grenadier will probably be just a one off affair going into the history books.

spudfan wrote:

That is not my opinion, I phrased it badly. I should have said
In certain people's eyes that does not make the New Land Cruiser a real Land Cruiser just like the New Defender is not a real Defender in certain people's eyes.

Chris86 wrote:

Aside from G-Class (which is epic........)

The new LC is the first 4x4 I have been really excited about for a while- I saw the specs for it, then the photoshoots last year and it's just smashed the net on the wide open goal Defender Left, and also the Grenadier left to an extent.

New Defender is too tech heavy for me, my initial impression having sat in a few Grenadiers and looked over them extensively (although I have yet to drive one) is that it's too many compromises for such a high price.

New LC is built by a company with a reputation for screwing vehicles together well, proper dealer support both Europe and worldwide if needed- can't wait to see the entry level specs & commercial variant if they do one.

I think it's got massive potential, and like others have mentioned both LR and Ineos ought to be worried.

I'll be trying to get my hands on one for a drive, who knows......if it ticked all the right boxes in a year or two one might even replace the 110 and the pickup!

Chris

spudfan wrote:

The new model is aimed at a different buying public and will probably compete with the New Defender.
The Grenadier is an outlier here. People in the modern SUV market will not buy it as it will seem to them as an old fashioned thing lacking in the creature comforts they desire.

soccerlaw wrote:

Really wanted to like the Grenadier but just feels like it’s slightly off… proper engine and a bit more rugged and they could have had a real winner. Feels like a defender knock off versus knocking off the defender.

lightning wrote:

"just like the New Defender is not a real Defender."

ln your opinion !
Have you owned one and actually used it rather than just read the reviews from various youtube "experts" ?

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

spudfan wrote:

The new model is aimed at a different buying public and will probably compete with the New Defender.
The Grenadier is an outlier here. People in the modern SUV market will not buy it as it will seem to them as an old fashioned thing lacking in the creature comforts they desire.

Curious, but what creature comforts do you think the Grenadier is really lacking? I thought it seemed pretty well specced tbh.

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

lightning wrote:

"just like the New Defender is not a real Defender."

ln your opinion !
Have you owned one and actually used it rather than just read the reviews from various youtube "experts" ?

I like the vehicle, but it is only a Defender in name. Design, features, function, market place, ability it is no more a "Defender" than a Range Rover is or even a Shogun. e.g. where is the chassis cab version, the pickup, the full tilt? I t doesn't even have flat wing tops or round headlights!

Doesn't really matter if you own a new one or not. Everything you use your new Defender for a classic Range Rover, Disco 4, L494 RRS or even a 4th Gen Shogun could do. But there are many things the old Defender can do that you simply can't do with the new model.

spudfan wrote:

If Land Rover had introduced this vehicle as it is now as a replacement for the Defender, how do you think it would have been received?.

Probably much the same as it has been. Those who bizarrely think the old Defender was an "SUV" would hate it, those who appreciated the old Defender for what is was would kind of like it but moan that it's too expensive, only has an auto box, doesn't leak enough, and of course it's not a proper engine because it has an ECU and the last proper engine was the 200TDi.