 | Home > Modifications & Maintenance (L663) > Oil & filter change or not? |
 
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1217   
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So old school but each to their own.
I appreciate many of us lived in an era where engines had to be “ run in” First oil change took out the metal particles from poorly mated surfaces. Engines are just not like this anymore. They are high precision. In a test environment I ran a modern engine under varying load conditions for 120000 miles. No oil change. On disassembly the engine parts were still in manufacturing tolerance Engineering has come a long way Clemmo Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow.... Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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12th Oct 2023 8:05pm |
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| TJ101 Member Since: 30 May 2007 Location: Taunton Somerset Posts: 3748  
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LOL,, and this week, replace a engine with only 37k on it, £14k bill
Engines are more in need of decent oils and regularly charges that the were , due to so called high precision. See more dead engines that we did just 10 years ago , so old school even more so California F1, 75th 110 "Kermit", 50th Ann V8, 90 V8 Hybrid, 55 Series 1 Main Brian James Trailer Dealer for South West UK |
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12th Oct 2023 8:20pm |
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| Nuclear Nick Member Since: 21 Aug 2021 Location: Southwest Posts: 282 
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This is rubbish Clemmo. Machining of metals hasn’t changed in many decades. Mating moving components still require to be lubricated and cooled and they still need to bed in during a running in process as they always have. This process, done properly, safely removes the peaks of metal remaining from the machining process and allows moving parts to develop their unique profile which will result in long term reliable operation. Lubricants have improved as has quality control and assurance but the laws of physics haven’t and so running in a new engine remains good practice. Manufacturers recommend their vehicles be run in and they haven’t changed this advice over many years either.
Those who say running in isn’t required are usually sales staff who tell customers what they want to hear. |
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12th Oct 2023 8:30pm |
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1217
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Not rubbish.. just experience.
You need to forget the past and move into current times. It’s manufacturers who dictate that running in is not required.. No longer back to the dealer after 1000 miles to have the head tightened down and oil change. That was 20 years and more ago. Leading manufacturers do not want you back in the workshop for 20k miles ( condition based servicing driven) ‘ Machining hasn’t changed in decades”??? Machining of metals has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. The metals have changed, the cutting tools have changed and the processes have changed. I have been designing and manufacturing engines for over 40 years. I’m an Automotive Engineer and the changes are phenomenal and continue. There is no bedding in… parts are machined to extremely tight limits. Limits that are 10 times tighter than 20 years ago. Yes lubricants have improved. This contributes to extending.service interval. https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-advice/bus...-a-new-car Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow.... Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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12th Oct 2023 9:30pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2638 
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More likely in my opinion that modern long service intervals are driven by the desire to keep ownership costs down in the first owner’s 2/3 year lease period, at the expense of longer term reliability after they’ve chopped it in for a new one and the factory warranty is out. All covered by the caveat in the manual that anything other than driving like miss daisy on normal roads may require more regular servicing.
2 years or 21,000 miles is madness - I do my engine oil/filter every 10k miles which is around every 4 months. |
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13th Oct 2023 5:18pm |
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| Nuclear Nick Member Since: 21 Aug 2021 Location: Southwest Posts: 282
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An interesting read. Think Porsche know what they’re talking about!
https://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/ |
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13th Oct 2023 5:56pm |
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| WizzardPrang Member Since: 05 Nov 2020 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 153
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The iGuide has a section on running in:
I wonder how many (or should that be few?) owners even read this, let alone bother with it. Nevertheless, 2 years/21K on the original oil? Current vehicle: 2020 Defender 110S Gone: Defender 90 HT 200Tdi, Discovery Sport, Freelander 2 Insta: wizzardprang |
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13th Oct 2023 8:56pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2734
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Changing the oil more regularly than recommended certainly won't do any harm, and whether it's better for the engine in the long term is open to endless debate.
Personally l had the oil and filter changed at 5,000 miles, it will get done again at 10,000 and then annually (around 10,000 mile intervals) lf nothing else it makes me feel like l am looking after the vehicle, as have bought it through my business and l plan to keep it long term. ln my last Land Rover l did 145,000 miles with no engine issues at all. The oil was changed annually. Let's see how this one gets on. lf there's any chance it will make the engine last longer l will do it, as an engine failure five years down the line could write off one of these new Defenders. Not like the old Defender where you could get a good used engine from a scrapped Discovery fitted for around £1,000 |
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14th Oct 2023 9:05am |
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| Co1 Member Since: 19 Aug 2018 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3671 
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Changed mine yesterday. Will strain it before disposing to see if there is anything in it. I’m pretty sure that the oil filter housing is the same as was on my puma as well!
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14th Oct 2023 2:28pm |
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| martinf Member Since: 30 Nov 2020 Location: Sussex Posts: 99
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Checked my service book for my Porsche. Oil change every 2 years or 20,000 miles! In practice I probably only do about 3000 miles a year so it is academic for me |
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14th Oct 2023 3:48pm |
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| Nuclear Nick Member Since: 21 Aug 2021 Location: Southwest Posts: 282
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Yes, mine too, but I still changed the oil at 5k miles then every year regardless of miles.
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14th Oct 2023 6:33pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035 
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Its a balance i think.
Land rover do suggest bedding in as do many manufactures, but then all of them, for differing reasons suggest longer service intervals. Personally it does no harm (in the main) doing more regular services, but isnt totally necessary. I was happy waiting 2 years on the defender, considering it had done less than 10k and i might do my own service before its due again. I think some of these things can get over-egg'd when you see what many lease and fleet cars get and what many of the "companies" do to actually service them, plus what the manufacture suggests. We could get into a whole debate about engine oil specs and genuine, premium and cheap service parts in a similar context. I always remember a taxi driver friend saying he does frequent oil changes with correct spec cheap oil as it was better than doing longer oil changes with expensive oil and he did tens thousands of miles. Similar i was watching something about converting home shopping vans and the difference between same age/miles/service and some having been destroyed and others being as new. So i think its far more complicated than any one factor - but i would happily follow a 2yr service life. What annoys me, is manufactures seem to keep service information and parts more secret now (wanting you to go to dealers) and certainly JLR with their "unique" oils (my 5.0SC oil of LR spec was a nightmare to source), im convinced you go to many garages and they will throw in any XWXX rather than the correct specification eg Ford or JLR spec and you never know. Mike |
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16th Oct 2023 10:53am |
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| Badeagle Member Since: 27 Aug 2022 Location: London Posts: 53
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Just booked mine in for oil and filter change at my dealers
Quoted £299 but will give 15% discount so £254 ish 1 year old and 5200 miles MY23 XS 110 D250 2003 Jeep Cherokee Limited |
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17th Oct 2023 6:41pm |
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| plumpmoose Member Since: 14 Dec 2015 Location: North Devon & Oxon Posts: 114
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Just done (DIY) mine at 11.4k miles. 8.4 litres of expensive shell (JLR approved from opie) and a new oem filter.
Needed to remove alloy sump and engine guards under engine to access the sump plug. Car has the TR2 and configurable response so not all cars might have these guards. Preferred doing it the old fashioned way to get all old oil out. Condition of old oil was fine - but the 20k service gap is rather long (UK based car). Car had only used 1.5 notches from the top level which I predict would be well within tolerences. Unnecessary expense? Maybe - but I did get to have a good poke about while on ramp. |
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13th Dec 2023 12:51pm |
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