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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
Bluest wrote:
Now that everyone is having their entitlement to drive up to 7.5t added, maybe they should look at doing one with a higher payload.

Do you have a reference for this?
Post #1000315 15th Jul 2023 7:24pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
blackwolf wrote:
Are they? Must have missed that! Possibly it didn't register since I've always had C1E through grandfather rights (also CE not through GF rights).

I knew that the towing restrictions had been eased (at least I think they have been) but didn't know that the 3.5 ton limit you young 'uns were afflicted with had changed.

Everyone could always tow, but post 1997 licences (so quite a while now) had overly complex and stupid EU regs.

It essentially said if you picked a crap tow vehicle you could tow, if you picked a good tow vehicle you basically could tow almost nothing.

e.g. If you had say a Ford Focus, you could before the law change, legally towed a caravan no problem with it. But if you had a Range Rover or a traditional 90 you couldn't. A 90 would have been restricted to towing only 750kg... But the Focus would probably be allowed to tow 1200kg+

It was all to do with the combined MAM of vehicle + trailer, no logical sense. But there where 2 or 3 different regulation sets over the years, so you had drivers of varying ages all with different towing eligibility.

Thankfully Brexit helped get rid of this utter nonsense so that it makes it a level playing field that is clear and easy to understand. Without any real world increase in risk to anyone.
Post #1000317 15th Jul 2023 7:29pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17367

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Bluest wrote:
Now that everyone is having their entitlement to drive up to 7.5t added, maybe they should look at doing one with a higher payload.

Do you have a reference for this?


I can find absolutely no evidence of this at all, the only change seems to be the cessation of the requirement for a separate trailer test. As far as I can see, a cat B licence still limits you to 3500kg MAM. Pre-'97 licence holders automatically have C1E, post-'97 baby-boomers so not.
Post #1000320 15th Jul 2023 7:35pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4651

Ireland 
When my daughter got her 300 tdi 90 about 4 years ago she did a separate trailer test. U.K. licence 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1000324 15th Jul 2023 7:56pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
But the test was only to tow certain combos, not that she couldn't tow at all. If for example she had a Freelander 1, she could have towed up to 1400kg's, so a pretty big caravan or even a small car transporter with a sports car on the back.
Post #1000327 15th Jul 2023 8:09pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17367

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Prior to 16/12/2021 the situation was complex, the text below is taken from the Government's page on the subject at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-...utumn-2021

    If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997 to 18 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following:

    a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total)
    a trailer over 750kg MAM, as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (up to 3,500kg in total)
    You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

    Licences issued from 19 January 2013
    If you passed your car driving test from 19 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following:

    a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total)
    a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
    You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

    What changed on 16 December 2021
    If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997, you’re now allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM.


However none of this has the slightest bearing on your eligibility to drive a vehicle which has a MAM in excess of 3500kg. For that you need Cat C1 or C, just as before.
Post #1000334 15th Jul 2023 9:53pm
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TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1043

France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
Bluest wrote:
In the UK electric vans are allowed be 4250kg to try to give them a decent payload.


How does to marry up with the limitation of 3500kg applicable to most normal driver license holders?
Post #1000335 15th Jul 2023 10:28pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
I think it’s a trial period at the minute, a B license holder can drive an EV van up to 4250kg, subject to receiving 5 hours training. There’s no test to pass. No need for tacho or o-license etc. I don’t know what the score is with speed limits. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #1000341 15th Jul 2023 11:51pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
I’ve read about that thing for EV’s in the past. Isn’t it limited to commercial vehicles and for very specific uses plus some other restrictions. Don’t think it is of any help for the vast majority of vehicles or drivers in the U.K.
Post #1000371 16th Jul 2023 9:59am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
It is only for commercials and is only a temporary derogation for now, although they are consulting on making it permanent and removing the need for 5 hours training. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #1000389 16th Jul 2023 2:23pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
blackwolf wrote:
Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Bluest wrote:
Now that everyone is having their entitlement to drive up to 7.5t added, maybe they should look at doing one with a higher payload.

Do you have a reference for this?


I can find absolutely no evidence of this at all, the only change seems to be the cessation of the requirement for a separate trailer test. As far as I can see, a cat B licence still limits you to 3500kg MAM. Pre-'97 licence holders automatically have C1E, post-'97 baby-boomers so not.


For towing it used to be 3500kg max train weight ( combination weight) if you didn’t have +E on your licence. Now it’s 3500kg trailer MAM which means in theory a 7000kg max train weight with right vehicle and trailer combo. Pre-97 is still 8250kg max train weight, so still a slight advantage, but nothing like the difference there was before.

It is not well worded, as they switch between trailer MAM and combination MAM, but it’s all on Gov.uk

The current consultation to consider returning to having C1 entitlement automatically is here https://www.gov.uk/government/consultation...ntitlement

It is still consultation, so not a done deal yet as my earlier post might have implied Very Happy 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #1000390 16th Jul 2023 2:28pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4651

Ireland 
From the latest email regarding tests inside the Arctic circle
"The Grenadier Quartermaster. Our new double cab pick-up made its world debut at Goodwood Festival of Speed last week.

It’s our seriously capable off-roader, with extended loadspace. So you can carry up to five adults in comfort, and even the most awkward loads, to remote destinations."
https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/ie/the-vehic...evelopment 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1000533 17th Jul 2023 2:02pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
Bluest wrote:
It is only for commercials and is only a temporary derogation for now, although they are consulting on making it permanent and removing the need for 5 hours training.

Knew there was another point, stumbled across it yesterday while looking for something else. It isn't commercial, it is for the transport of goods. I assume running empty having dropped or on your way to collect is permissible. But not general running about or a vehicle that isn't for transporting goods. Which probably rules out a general purpose pickup.
Post #1000547 17th Jul 2023 3:13pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
At the risk of going event further off-topic... I think there's a definition somewhere of what constitutes a vehicle adapted for the carriage of goods, which presumably is what they are getting at. In the Road Traffic Act it says: “goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted,

Pretty vague and one that would probably require lawyers in a courtroom to sort out. I think HMRC came up with a different definition when deciding on the tax status of VW transporters with 2nd row seats. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #1000548 17th Jul 2023 3:19pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 
To keep vaguely on-topic. Trial period or not, I can't see it being of any help in allowing something like the Quartermaster to have a 1 tonne payload in the UK/EU.
Post #1000550 17th Jul 2023 3:21pm
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