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Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 755

Muehae wrote:
spudfan wrote:
I am sure that the Ineos Grenadier is capable of carrying more but that puts it outside the current driving licence limits.

The Hilux / Navarra can do it. I do not intend to be rude. A very fantastic project. But is this a joke?

Quartermaster:
price: 85 to 90 k€
payload: 0.76 t (without any accessories)
fuel consumption: 12.2 l/100 km (WLTP) / about 23 MPG UK
Range: 730 km (WLTP) / Reality 540 km

Hilux:
price: 35 to 45 k€
payload: 1.05 t (without any accessories)
fuel consumption: 7,3 l/100 km (WLTP) / about 38 MPG UK
Range: 1095 km (WLTP) / Reality 900 km

So all mouth and no trousers? Sorry, it seems rather silly to me.

Hilux has a Fisherprice interior, very few options, 4 pot wheezy engine and less gears. Not too mention much lower spec.

Would think the Hilux would also ride considerably worse empty. Does it still use leaf springs at the back?

Bet you don't get anywhere near real world of 38mpg either and did I mention it is gruff and slow.

At least try and pick something remotely comparable. Might as well pick base model Fiesta and compare it to a good spec 5 Series BMW for all the point of your comparison.

Or we could just pair this back to simple common sense.

The Grenadier has a kerb weight of 2,669 to 2,811 kg.

It MUST stay under 3500kg...... GVW due to European driving licences. You ain't going to get a 1 tonne payload with those numbers.

15th Jul 2023 11:38am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 755

camelman wrote:
I can't see there being much of a UK market for a £50k+ pick up that doesn't have the commercial benefits of VAT relief, Capital write down and personal van BIK ?

Not everyone who buys a vehicle can claim the VAT back. The Ford Ranger Raptor also doesn't have a commercial rating in the UK. And at the end of the day I doubt very much that the UK pickup market is of that much real importance to Ineos. They will sell way more in other countries.

15th Jul 2023 11:44am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 755

Mr Fox wrote:
It feels like they have misjudged the UK market .

How?

Or more precisely, what is it that you 'think' they are trying to do?

15th Jul 2023 11:46am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 755

Bluest wrote:
Will the NA or Aus versions have a higher payload?

Probably not.

The Ford Ranger in the US has a lower payload rating than the UK/EU version.

Toyota don't sell the Hilux in the USA anymore. It was too basic.... for some years there is a purpose built truck called the Tacoma.

Click image to enlarge

It is a bigger plusher truck than a Hilux. Payload is about 653kg......

Maybe Toyota also don't know how to build pickup trucks

15th Jul 2023 11:50am

TexasRover

Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1089

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White

I think if you set out to build an ultimate offroader with inevitable higher fuel consumption and kerb-weight, you are not going to target the European/UK do-goody market. This whole design concept goes against everything they want to do with cars in the EU/UK.

No this is for markets were man can be man and have proper toys to play with: Australia, Middle East America, Latin America. Light touch regulations, cheap fuel and no-one worrying about no weight.

I lived in above countries: Europe is for Girls

15th Jul 2023 11:57am

Muehae

Member Since: 17 Jun 2023
Location: Erding
Posts: 20

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Muehae wrote:
spudfan wrote:
I am sure that the Ineos Grenadier is capable of carrying more but that puts it outside the current driving licence limits.

The Hilux / Navarra can do it. I do not intend to be rude. A very fantastic project. But is this a joke?

Quartermaster:
price: 85 to 90 k€
payload: 0.76 t (without any accessories)
fuel consumption: 12.2 l/100 km (WLTP) / about 23 MPG UK
Range: 730 km (WLTP) / Reality 540 km

Hilux:
price: 35 to 45 k€
payload: 1.05 t (without any accessories)
fuel consumption: 7,3 l/100 km (WLTP) / about 38 MPG UK
Range: 1095 km (WLTP) / Reality 900 km

So all mouth and no trousers? Sorry, it seems rather silly to me.

Hilux has a Fisherprice interior, very few options, 4 pot wheezy engine and less gears. Not too mention much lower spec.

Would think the Hilux would also ride considerably worse empty. Does it still use leaf springs at the back?

Bet you don't get anywhere near real world of 38mpg either and did I mention it is gruff and slow.

At least try and pick something remotely comparable. Might as well pick base model Fiesta and compare it to a good spec 5 Series BMW for all the point of your comparison.

Or we could just pair this back to simple common sense.

The Grenadier has a kerb weight of 2,669 to 2,811 kg.

It MUST stay under 3500kg...... GVW due to European driving licences. You ain't going to get a 1 tonne payload with those numbers.

Wow, someone must hit a nerve ...

No one actually wrote the grenadier is bad. I am actually find it a fascinating project. From the start we followed stories and hoped it would as great as we hoped. We gave it a good look ourself but decided it is way off.

You can find explanations all day long, compared to well known brands it is way more expensive, more expensive to run (mpg) and less usable as a commercial vehicle. Thats a fact.

But if you like it, good for you. Have it! Looking forward what are you going to tell us about it.

15th Jul 2023 12:18pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17459

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Bluest wrote:
Will the NA or Aus versions have a higher payload?

Probably not.
:

I'm sure I remember one of the US Grenadier reviews quoting a GVW higher than 3500kg.

It'd be great if they brought out an HD version, perhaps 5 tonne GVW. Unlikely to happen, I fear, unless there's a world market for it.

15th Jul 2023 12:54pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4718

I'd say it is down to licence technicalities in different markets. If they upped the standard UK/.EU licence from the current 3.500kg you would be allowed to carry more. There has been suggestions such as this on posts on this site that the 3.500kg limit will not be much good for EV's due to the weight of the batteries as it limits what you can carry, 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

15th Jul 2023 1:23pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17459

The 3500kg limits both on cat B licences and C&U Regs have already been upped for EVs, I believe.

I'd happily buy a 5 ton GVW Grenadier and run it as a Private HGV if the option existed (and the vehicle was not quite so costly).

15th Jul 2023 2:11pm

Muehae

Member Since: 17 Jun 2023
Location: Erding
Posts: 20

Even perfectly ordinary commercial vehicals up to 3.5 t (e.g. transit, sprinter) can not carry their usual payload of about 1t, when a large battery pack need to be carried around. Furthermore, i am quite certain an EV-Version of the grenadier easily will be on the wrong side of 3 t "dry".

I am wondering too, if regulations regarding weight and driving license categories and speed limits (80kph is a pain in the b***) will be softened eventually (not counting on it because of the dirty politics these days).

15th Jul 2023 2:36pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4218

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

In the UK electric vans are allowed be 4250kg to try to give them a decent payload. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

15th Jul 2023 3:58pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1629

I would say the quarter master will do well in the utility market (Cherry pickers, small hiabs, response, mountain rescue military and police),as it looks like you’ll be able to have it as a chassis cab, is there a single/king cab on the way I wonder? The rear body tub looks to be a separate panel. Like a few have said it will be able to be driven on a car licence meaning you don’t need all the drivers to have the bigger licences.

15th Jul 2023 4:26pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17459

I doubt you'd get a cherry-picker or knuckleboom on one without exceeding 3500kg, but running one as a goods vehicle probably less of an issue in those markets, provided the chassis can be updated.

15th Jul 2023 5:20pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4218

Now that everyone is having their entitlement to drive up to 7.5t added, maybe they should look at doing one with a higher payload. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

15th Jul 2023 6:00pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17459

Are they? Must have missed that! Possibly it didn't register since I've always had C1E through grandfather rights (also CE not through GF rights).

I knew that the towing restrictions had been eased (at least I think they have been) but didn't know that the 3.5 ton limit you young 'uns were afflicted with had changed.

It would have to be Private HGV and HGV tested if over 3500kg of course.

15th Jul 2023 6:47pm

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