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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101   
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Lets keep this one for information regarding Webasto FBH. The models, the differences and installation do's and don'ts.
I am looking to install a webasto thermo top. There are several to chose from. The thermo top C is the universal FBH, fuel burning heater, for the defender as its rated for upto 2.5L engine. There are also a V version, a Z version plus others but we'll stick to the Z and C versions. They are the same heater, the Z is installed into Rover 75's , Bmw X5s etc etc as an Auxiliary heater NOT a parking heater. They may not have the water pump fitted, although a lot do. I don't want to pay the thick end of 1k for an occasional heater so i have been researching the DIY option. I have bought a Thermo top Z/C from a Rover 75 for less than a round  ( i did buy a V version off ebay but sent it back)
I'm going back for the fuel pump as it was under the car and the car was not on wheels so couldn't lift it. The Z i have bought has an external water pump as the C does. I stripped out the plugs and as much loom as i could get. My plan is not to run it off a timer but a RF fob. I don't want to drill any extra holes in the interior and i can blip it from the kitchen window when i want to pre warm the 110. I have been researching wiring diagrams, trouble shooting and general webasto Z/C info. I have some .PDFs to upload with loads of technical info plus a parts and price list. i will update as i go but we are looking at a sub £250 installation.  |
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2nd Sep 2012 10:23pm |
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| Landlord Member Since: 27 Oct 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 582  
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Looking at installing a Webasto FBH as well so will be looking on with interest
2007 TD5 90 Hard Top |
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3rd Sep 2012 5:50am |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512 
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I have some Webaste (Installation) Manuals on my wesbsite, may be of interest. Cheers, Vincent
1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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3rd Sep 2012 6:06am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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As a first input
Be aware that a lot of the heaters on ebay were installed by the OEM as additional heater (Zusatz Heizer), not a full parking heater (standheizung) Although both units have identical output etc the difference is in the electronics. The additional heater cannot be commanded by the normal timers and accessories. Earlier models need a different electronic board, which is not available from webasto. The later ones need a software patch, for which you need an independent webasto installer to do this (if he wants). Also, most of the brand dedicated devices have brand specific can-bus protocols. All these non universal heater have the Z indication in their type number= Zusatz Heizer. On some you will get away using the new-style oval timer, which communicates over bus signal with the unit. (later models) On others you might get away with putting the on/off signal from the timer (square types) or remote controls to the right pin on the heater unit. On some you wont be able to make them work at all. So be aware with the Z types.  |
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3rd Sep 2012 8:42am |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101
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I am aware of the pitfalls of a Z. As I said this is a very simple machine. So the pcb won't run a timer, I don't want a timer!
I have a load of pdfs for peoples perusals once I can get them up. £250 is my target including the webasto! |
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3rd Sep 2012 9:11am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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Tig UP
I’m only mentioning for those not being aware
Webasto principles are not like that. The pcb of the heater is only taking care about the heating process. (start up, run, power down, temp sensors, circulation and fuel pump, safety parameters etc) It has to receive a signal from a controller when it needs to heat and when not. See it as a modular setup with each module taking care of its complete task. NON bus communication This can be any remote, timer, switch. It are the timer, remote, etc which are having the timing module, or thermostatic, or etc etc These simply put a +12vdc signal on the right pin as long as the heater has to run. Bus communication This can be the oval timer, the webasto remotes, and of course the car itself. The bus communication between these controllers and the heating unit make that you can get info back, eg status of heater module (on/off/ heating/ventilation) The bus communication between the heater and the car make that it will take commands from the car (eg run as engine temp is too low) and can command parts of the car (eg switch on cabin ventilator) Therefore it needs to know the right language, so a VW unit talks different than a BMW unit. To make it even more complex, the control units also communicate over the bus with the car bus. Eg a brand dedicated T90 remote will not send a bus signal to the heater unit to switch on but to the car’s automatic clima system. It is the clima sytem which will then (depending on inside temp) decide to send the start- signal to the webasto and control the whole cabin pre-heating (temps, ventilation,etc) BUT this same T90 remote will receive a bus signal from the webasto unit as confirmation that it is switched on/off. The problem with Z units is that they sometimes lack the software which will over pin (NO/NC contacts) or over bus com send the signals to switch on ventilators for cabin heating. This is because they are only intended to work as engine block heaters. A lot of manufacturers use their own on-board systems to switch on pre-cabin heating instead of the webasto hard/software. So the onboard interface will replace the webasto timer unit. Eg the D3 dashboard interface, Mercedes menu system or command system, Audi MMI, etc (cabin heating is programmed = at set time switch on webasto, if water temp >= 45°C switch on ventilation system till cabin temp >= 21°C etc etc) This means in some cases when using a Z unit and you want to have cabin-pre heating you will have to make your own cabin system, commanding the heater unit. If you only want engine pre-heating this is no problem of course. |
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3rd Sep 2012 9:52am |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101
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Tahnks for pointing out the pitfalls. I'm a little ahead I guess. My Z unit only requires an external 12v+ to pin 1 to run.
I am aware of the later Z thjat are can bus rteady. There's a company called danhag that make an interface for 99e that sorts this out
I have already designed an drive for the internal fan, a defenders a simple machine...no climate here! Don't get hung up on all the issues, they do not concern me on a defender. |
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3rd Sep 2012 10:14am |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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Go http://sdrv.ms/1juZzHG
Select the webasto folder........ Enjoy it Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition 
IID Pro MV License Last edited by dgardel on 8th Feb 2014 5:34am. Edited 1 time in total |
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3rd Sep 2012 11:21am |
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| SteveS Member Since: 05 Oct 2010 Location: Devon & Berkshire Posts: 388 
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TIG UP - I had mine professionally fitted but for RHD vehicles particularly finding a suitable mounting location seems to be difficult for the TDCi. FWIW mine ended up on the nearside chassis rail inside face along side the gearbox/bell housing.
Other considerations for me were - location of air intake for good wading capability - this ends up in the engine compartment near the heater fan c/w a u-bend to trap air and keep water out |
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3rd Sep 2012 5:55pm |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101
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there small units. Under the heater duct in the NS wings sems the best use of space. Either that or above the turbo like BPmans. knocking up a test loom and rig. I'll be getting the pump on wednesday soo should have a test fire by the weekend. The unit has a max cut off temp built in which i will be testing. |
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3rd Sep 2012 6:05pm |
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| cobs Member Since: 12 Jun 2008 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 336 
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Some details of my install here:
https://defender2.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=646 There's some general stuff in teh first section about the pitfalls of buying a BMW unit |
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4th Sep 2012 10:06am |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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Download my DIY Webasto manual for the Puma also
http://sdrv.ms/1cmUyK2 Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
IID Pro MV License Last edited by dgardel on 8th Feb 2014 5:36am. Edited 1 time in total |
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4th Sep 2012 12:56pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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the location of cobs heater is good, behind the headlight and his install guide is spot on, I used parts of it for my install - T1G - you won't be able to fit yours above the exhaust manifold - you have a brake servo in the way
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4th Sep 2012 6:41pm |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101
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not taken it off the rover bracket yet for a trial fit.
I'll get it run up first, then i'll strip it and clean replace the consumable items. maybe behind the headlight. got to take mine out again soon enough Last edited by T1G UP on 10th Sep 2012 3:57pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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4th Sep 2012 8:35pm |
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