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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Engine sounds like an old Dump truck
S.H.M.B.O. used the Defender to go to work yesterday and on leaving she started it up and the engine made a horrendous noise. Some hours later it was recovered home , when I tried to start it it it took about 6 goes and it seems like the battery was flat, when it did start it sounded like a 70 year old lister engine fitted to a dump truck, I tried to put it on the drive and found that there was no drive , |I don't know if the recovery guy had put both levers into neutral but I managed to get the vehicle to move by selecting diff lock.

Its a 2007 2.4 engine and had no warning lights display. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #852825 29th Aug 2020 6:56am
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 282

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey
First thing I'd check is injectors. The engine can sound horrible when they are loose.

Take off the plastic cover and wiggle the bolts, retaining brackets and injectors. You'll soon see if they are loose.

Alternatively get someone to turn the engine over whilst you watch them, if they are loose they will go up and down with the piston strokes and starting will be difficult due to lack of compression.

After this, assuming injectors are ok, I'd probably start looking at the fuel system first off as water/air in diesel can make funny sounds and prevent starting.

Lack of drive is probably the recovery guy - he didn't remove the rear prop shaft or anything did he? Either way it would be a separate issue I'd say. Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)
Post #852892 29th Aug 2020 11:18am
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5700

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Start with the basic. Put all the wife’s clothes into bin bags, and throw them into the front garden, then........ Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter
Post #852898 29th Aug 2020 11:27am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
If lack of drive is due to recovery man removing the rear propshaft, then you should be grateful to him, as recovery by lifting front wheels and leaving rear wheels on the road would lead to failure or the center diff. But at least he should give you the rear prop shaft back. When mine broke down, I requested a flat bed recovery truck even I was only 1 mile from home.

As to the engine issue, sounds like an injector issue. Check harness as well. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #852902 29th Aug 2020 11:56am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
ozzie1989 wrote:
First thing I'd check is injectors. The engine can sound horrible when they are loose.

Take off the plastic cover and wiggle the bolts, retaining brackets and injectors. You'll soon see if they are loose.

Alternatively get someone to turn the engine over whilst you watch them, if they are loose they will go up and down with the piston strokes and starting will be difficult due to lack of compression.

After this, assuming injectors are ok, I'd probably start looking at the fuel system first off as water/air in diesel can make funny sounds and prevent starting.

Lack of drive is probably the recovery guy - he didn't remove the rear prop shaft or anything did he? Either way it would be a separate issue I'd say.



Checked the brackets and injectors and all seems tight I don't want to start it as I don't what damage it will cause. I assume that he put everything in neutral before moving pulling it onto the flat bed and in the dark I just managed to get it into diff lock . Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853079 30th Aug 2020 10:09am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Did I read on here that you can get oil in the injector harness or did I imagine it?. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853080 30th Aug 2020 10:10am
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 282

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey
That was the TD5 engine that suffered with that...

What's your plan now? Are you putting it into a garage?

I'd get someone to turn the engine over and check those injectors again. You don't need to start it and by the sounds of things you said it won't start anyway Thumbs Up Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)
Post #853093 30th Aug 2020 11:14am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Unfortunately the characteristics you list in the first post are not symptomatic of a single fault.

The first part of your post sounds like a serious engine fault, possibly the old piston cooling jet (PCJ) hysteresis fault. It rather begs the question of why the vehicle was driven so far making such a catastrophic noise, I'm afraid.

The "no drive" issue does sounds as though a propshaft has been disconnected, although for a flatbed recovery this is unnecessary. This part of the mystery should be obvious if you look underneath.

Given that the Defender has been driven some distance already it is unlikely that starting the engine again will do any significant additional damage and I'd be inclined to try again to see what happens. The noise, sluggish start, general symptoms you have described make me fear that it has run with insufficient oil pressure and has damaged the bores to the point of partial seizure. I hope I'm wrong because that will mean a replacement complete engine.

I don't know what level of diagnostic expertise you have, or what equipment, but the first thing I'd do is check for DTCs, then check the oil level and examine the oil for metallic debris. An inspection of the bores with a borescope down the injector ports would probably be next.

It would be very unusual for an '07 to suffer the PCJ problem after 13 years but sadly it's not impossible.
Post #853102 30th Aug 2020 11:56am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Quote:
Unfortunately the characteristics you list in the first post are not symptomatic of a single fault.

The first part of your post sounds like a serious engine fault, possibly the old piston cooling jet (PCJ) hysteresis fault. It rather begs the question of why the vehicle was driven so far making such a catastrophic noise, I'm afraid.

The "no drive" issue does sounds as though a propshaft has been disconnected, although for a flatbed recovery this is unnecessary. This part of the mystery should be obvious if you look underneath.

Given that the Defender has been driven some distance already it is unlikely that starting the engine again will do any significant additional damage and I'd be inclined to try again to see what happens. The noise, sluggish start, general symptoms you have described make me fear that it has run with insufficient oil pressure and has damaged the bores to the point of partial seizure. I hope I'm wrong because that will mean a replacement complete engine.

I don't know what level of diagnostic expertise you have, or what equipment, but the first thing I'd do is check for DTCs, then check the oil level and examine the oil for metallic debris. An inspection of the bores with a borescope down the injector ports would probably be next.

It would be very unusual for an '07 to suffer the PCJ problem after 13 years but sadly it's not impossible.


According to S.H.M.B.O. the engine sounded fine when she parked the vehicle it was some hours later when she started it to return home that she became aware of the noise, she rang me so i could hear it then shut down, the vehicle was driven a max of 20 feet to get it onto the drive. I suspect to recovery driver put the levers in to neutral.

The only diagnostic's I have are my ears and eye's . The oil level is fine . If it was a petrol engine it would be running on two cylinders . The only thing I can see a miss is a connector covered in oil on the nearside behind a cooling pipe ,I can't get my hands in to check the connections.

I hope your worst cause is wrong to as it may mean the end of ownership. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853300 31st Aug 2020 8:56am
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2154

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Just a thought but has some tea leaf stole the cat or exhaust off it??
Post #853301 31st Aug 2020 8:58am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
The exhaust is all there. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853313 31st Aug 2020 9:45am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
If it sounds as though it's running on 2 cylinders it may not be as catastrophic as your first post suggested. Fingers crossed!
Post #853316 31st Aug 2020 9:53am
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2154

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Seems odd to have happened after standing if its so catastrophic.....
Post #853335 31st Aug 2020 12:01pm
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
90 Dreamer.

That's what I thought and can't get my head round it. It sounded fine when she left home and S.H.M.B.O. it was running perfect on the 5 miles way to work and even when she reversed into the parking bay. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853537 1st Sep 2020 8:50am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Just been out to empty the vehicle prior to it being recovered to an Indy and found that the battery has gone flat even though it was fully re charged on Sunday after having the problems restarting on Friday .

Now if it had a short somewhere would that effect the engine's running?. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #853826 2nd Sep 2020 2:11pm
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