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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434   
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After some head-scratching, I suppose that is a two pin, and we are looking at the roll pin. Now I am wondering if that pin is backing out...
There's nothing with regards to drivability that would suggest a problem (at the moment) Roaming around π³π΄π¨π |
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9th Mar 2022 3:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388  
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As it happens I have a spare rebuilt front two-gear diff on my kitchen floor at the moment, so photography is easy.
I believe that you are seeing an imminent expensive problem! The view is this (although you'll have to hold your screen upside-down to get the same orientation):  Click image to enlarge A more distant view to contextualise: Click image to enlarge The way that the roll-pin is working its way out is disturbing, before long you will have a complete failure of the front diff if you don't address it soon. I cannot make out what you are seeing in your first photo I am afraid. It is conceptually possible that you could have a two-gear rear diff in a P38 housing since there are two-gear P38 diffs used in P38s. It shouldn't have been fitted in the factory however, but on a pre-owned vehicle anything is theoretically possible. Two-gear P38 diffs tend to be cheap (for a fairly sound reason!) but provide a useful source of affordable pinion carrier castings, together with the R&P set, if you want to build up an ATB or Airlocker. I have bought several over the years for this purpose. |
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9th Mar 2022 5:57pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Oh joy
Whatβs the book time on this? Iβll have to hire it done (or risk driving 1800km to my house with tools) Roaming around π³π΄π¨π |
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9th Mar 2022 6:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388
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It shouldn't take long for a competent mechanic, you simply need to raise the front of the vehicle, disconnect the tie rod, unbolt both swivel balls from the axle tube and pull the entire wheel/swivel/hub/halfshaft/brake assembly out about three inches on each side (bloomin' heavy). Disconnect the front propshaft and then the diff can be dropped out.
Even working on a driveway the diff can be out in under an hour and back in another hour. |
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9th Mar 2022 7:04pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8033  
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Take care with the brake l8nes. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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9th Mar 2022 9:31pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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I guess the question now is to go for the ashcroft 4 pin or ATB.
Most here would probably say ATB, but I have some concerns: - ATB only in front makes weird handling? - Have read the ATB makes the truck pull to the left at first? 4-pin front makes the front and rear approximately the same. - marginally cheaper. no worries? I think I'll order one of the two in the coming days as that roll-pin being already half way out is at best making for an even weaker diff, and at worst is a harbinger of doom. I need to drive back to Norway in May and I can't have this thing break on the highway with a full load, wife, dogs, etc. Fun. EDIT: Would you guys replace the crown wheel bolts? Roaming around π³π΄π¨π Last edited by Angus_Beef on 10th Mar 2022 8:23am. Edited 1 time in total |
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10th Mar 2022 7:16am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388
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I have spent a lot of time with only a front ATB in mine when I've managed to break the rear one and while I have been building up a replacement  and have noticed nothing weird about the handling (at least nothing weirder than a heavy 110 on KM3s is usually). I believe that there are some here who run a rear locker and a front ATB and live to tell the tale. Tales of weird handling are, in my opinion, generally put about by people who don't have a front ATB and who are looking for an excuse to save money.
If I am rebuilding a standard diff as a standard diff I tend to reuse the crownwheel bolts provided that they are in perfect condition. If I am building up locker or ATB I replace with new. It is a very small extra cost and gives peace of mind. |
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10th Mar 2022 8:07am |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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current thoughts:
Click image to enlarge Still need to decide if I want to go the ATB route. If I do the front ATB now, I'm sure I'll do the rear by the summer, because having only one fitted is going to bother me. I dont actually need atbs. Of course, I don't actually need KM3s, or a bas tune, etc. Its a slippery slope 
EDIT: Pulled the trigger on the 4-pin, as above, to get this fixed now. Maybe down the road I'll do the atbs. The TC will get one for sure once it needs rebuilding, but for now this will get me (relatively) worry free. Roaming around π³π΄π¨π |
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10th Mar 2022 8:19am |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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 Makes having a cheap USB borescope a good idea perhaps... Even a borrowed one to do a quick check of your diffs 
Oh and if I were in your shoes... ATB all the way  The majority of traction loss I experience in Miffy is when one or other front tyres unloads and momentum is lost. This is mostly up steep hills, gravel, icy, etc. Its enough that without TC if my diff were to die I would go the ATB route as an alternative fit and forget traction aide. |
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10th Mar 2022 10:49am |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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I'll post my findings when the diff is out. Im rather curious at just how loose that roll-pin actually is as well as the condition of the cross pin and its fit into the carrier. I've seen a few posts on here where the roll-pin had fallen out completely and was found in the housing intact- only noticed after the diff self destructed. Roaming around π³π΄π¨π
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10th Mar 2022 3:35pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Called our lovely friends in Luton and changed the 4-pin centre for an ATB. Roaming around π³π΄π¨π
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11th Mar 2022 10:28am |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Thanks for taking that pic and replying - it's very helpful, particularly that it illustrates the roll-pin is actually two roll-pins. Roaming around π³π΄π¨π |
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11th Mar 2022 4:01pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5707 
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The pin tends to get caught on the ring gear first.
Click image to enlarge Last edited by landy andy on 12th Mar 2022 7:14am. Edited 1 time in total |
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11th Mar 2022 4:13pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Hi andy, thats the cross-pin you are referring to in your picture. The roll-pin, which should hold it in place, is already missing in that photo. (I hope I have my terminology correct)
All - I have a bit of sweating on the swivel ball seal, and some cross contamination between axle oil and one-shot grease, apparent when changing axle oil. This was noticeable from the color each time Ive changed axle oil, and I assume even a very small amount of oneshot would color the oil quite effectively. I foresee no problems with lubrication, but if enough oil dilution occurs in the swivels then their seals could form a leak. I plan to stick half a oneshot in each swivel while to top them up. I'm wondering if it is worth replacing the half shaft oil seal at the end of the axle housing now (7 years and 75k miles), or just leave it as is for a while and do it when it needs brake disks / swivel housing seals / ect. slippery slope between replacing a diff and renewing everything "while I'm in there" Roaming around π³π΄π¨π |
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12th Mar 2022 2:51am |
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