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Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

2.2 engine died

Gents,

Need some help. My 2.2 engine died.. here is the story:

I needed to take the transfer box out due to a leak from the main box output. I was not in a hurry, so last time I used it was about a month ago. When I took the transfer box out, I disconnected the battery, key was not in the ignition, so the alarm went off. I recall putting the battery terminal back on and switching on the ignition, and that silenced the alarm. Disconnected the battery again, and alarm did not go off.

I thought I go for a test drive, to make sure that the gearbox leak is fixed. Engine started ok, but about 5 to 7minutes into the test drive, the engine missed, as if throttle response issue. I did not notice immediately, because I was more on engine brake going downhill. Soon I noticed that the Battery and Oil indicator on the dash where On!!! Pulled over right away, and just as I released the clutch, the engine was already not turning over. Tried to start the engine, and the engine started right away, nothing to worry about, but I did not drive not even 1 minute until the engine died again. All attempts to start the engine again was futile. Feels like engine wants to start but then nothing.

Is this an immobilizer issue? if yes, is there a way to sort it out?
If not immobilizer, could it be a sensor of any sort?
I did not see the engine check light. Only comes on on ignition, but I think that is normal.

PS, when I re fitted the transfer case, I sorted a bit the cables above the transfer case, are they were not so noce. But none of the connectors were disconnected or anything. I was also very careful with cables, never twist or pull too much on them.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

21st Jul 2020 4:34pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

I have checked fuse4 under right side seat, but is ok.
Have locked and unlocked the doors multiple times, but also no luck.

Immobilizer indicator seems fine, 1 flash every second or so, always on with a door open.

Now I occasionally get no response when I turn the key to the ‘start, III’ position. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

21st Jul 2020 5:35pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

It was actually less than a mile test drive before the engine hesitation, and then dying.

Thinking about it...
1. Drove a bit less than a mile, and engine shut off.
2. On first attempt, it started at once, but only drove about 100 yards before shutting off again.
3. On all consecutive attempts to start the engine, it felt like engine wanted to fire, but then dies after a second.
4. Last attempts, the engine turns over, but no sign that it wants to fire.

Could it be a fuel issue? Let it stand for 1 month caused anything to block? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

21st Jul 2020 7:16pm

Marks Landy

Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 299

Check your earth bonding strap isn’t loose.

21st Jul 2020 8:51pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1786

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

I don't believe in coincidencies but.....

Ignition switch failed
Loose battery terminal
engine loom been stretched, trapped around infamous red lifting lug - multi plug loose?

Good luck

Keith

21st Jul 2020 8:52pm

Julie

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 497

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

You put it aside one month ago ...

Anyhow, this is a managed engine and therefore the fault codes ( if any ) would be most interesting

Don't you think ?

21st Jul 2020 8:55pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

Thank you for the replies so far.

There are 2 earth bondings on the transfer case. Large one is connected to the stud on the left side. That one I applied loctite on the threads that go in the adapter housing. But the nuts should make good contact with the transfer case, and transfer case should make good contact with gearbox as I cleaned all sealant that was applied before.

The small cabled that bond on the right, they went in the way they came out. I did power wash the transfer case before fitting it in, but I did not check the cleanliness of the cable eyelets. Worth checking with a meter.

Yesterday I checked them physically and they were ok. I will check for resistance with a meter.

I will check the ignition switch. I had once an ignition failure on my 1988 90, was darn easy to point to it, not so clear on a tdci.

Battery terminal looks ok. Also after quite some starting (cranking) the terminals were still cool to the touch.

@ ickle, not sure what you mean by "infamous red lifting lug". Ther is a large multiplug just over the transfer case. When I was working on the transfer case, I tied the harness high to the seatbox to prevent damage. After re assembly, I fitted the bracket that should be on the left side of the transfer case mounting bolt (was fitted on the right), as the right bracket supporting the DPF temperature sensor connectors was missing. I fabricated a bracket myself to support the dpf connectors. I hope none of the wires where holding on the last copper strand, as this Defender has a history of adapter shaft failures.

Indeed, this is a managed engine. I am planning to purchase a Nanocom Evolution, see if I have any codes. Unfortunately, my Forscan does not read the 2.2 engine. I hate taking the Defender to any garage. I am a DIY guy, and trust my work a bit more than someone who is pressed on time to make more money. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

22nd Jul 2020 4:56am

Julie

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 497

If you only need to read a few fault codes, you will be happy with an OBD2 reader for some bucks.
Some DIY solutions disussed in this forum may quickly help you out.

The Nanocom is costly - but it can program the ECU and the AS10...
I bought one, too.

22nd Jul 2020 5:14am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

Yes, I am also hoping to read with one of the cheaper units that connect to phone. I will keep you posted. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

22nd Jul 2020 6:31am

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1786

at the back of the cylinder head there is a red engine lifting lug, the wiring loom routes around and in some cases against it & its caused members problems with the loom chafing through - if yours were touching IIRC you have to drop the back of the engine down on an angle to remove the transfer & gearboxes - could the loom have been damaged at this point, especially if there was existing damage there?

HTH Keith

22nd Jul 2020 7:48am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

OMG.. that does not sound nice.

When i removed the transfer case, i lifted the transfer case maybe 2 inches, just enough to get the mountings off. I then supported the main gearbox by wedging a piece of wood between the gearbox and its cross member.

I have not removed the gearbox, but I know that the clutch was replaced not long before I purchased the Defender.
I hope it is not the case. I will check if I see anything with an endoscope before taking the gearbox out. Not really looking forward to do that. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

22nd Jul 2020 9:06am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

2.2 is alive again

Have done some actions and checks with tge following results:

1. Disconnected earths on transfer case, clean any oils, clean with wire brush and re connect. Engine still wont start.

2. Drained some fuel from the filter drain. Did this while in tank pump was running. Did not see any water. Disconnected fuel hose supply to HP pump as do not have Schrader valve fitting. Lots of fuel flow when pump is running. But engine still does not start.

3. Checked harness behind engine as good as i could, both from above and from below. No chafing found. Just found part of the harness that looks like should have been clipped on a bracket on the starter motor loose. But no damage on harness. Wiggled and checked all connectors that I could see. Re check connectors above transfer case. Everything looked ok. Engine still wont start.

4. Dismantle covers around steering column. Noticed antenna around key barrel a bit pushed in. Pulled it out closer to key. Read the DTCs. What I found was scary.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Reset all error codes... and voila engine started first time.

Went for a test drive, re check for DTCs, but none found. Have switched engine off and on a few times, no apparent issues anymore. But scary, and not trusting it so much. I hope I can build confidence again.

Thank you to those who contributed in some way or another. For sure you were great moral support. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

22nd Jul 2020 4:13pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3421

I read that to disconnect battery on a tdci, you need to switch the ignition to On, then off, then you have 17 seconds to disconnect the battery (negative terminal).

Is it ok to keep the battery disconnected for a long period of time (weeks)? Or that can mess up ecu? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

23rd Jul 2020 6:59am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

Yes, that's the process for disarming the battery back-up alarm, if fitted, although I think it might be 20 seconds. The usual trick is to loosen the earth terminal, turn on, turn off and then yank the cable off.

Once disconnected, it'd be fine to leave it like that indefinitely. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

23rd Jul 2020 7:20am

Julie

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 497

The disarming battery alarm - never heard about this

I have always done it the usual way. And mine behaves like any old-fashioned car. No alarm.

@Dinnu : Cool, your engine runs ... keep an eye on it

23rd Jul 2020 7:59pm

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