 | Home > Technical > Dipstick tube 'spitting' oil? |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848  
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This evening I was checking oil levels, and I'd left the engine running.
I noticed that there was quite a bit of oil spitting out of the dipstick tube. Is this normal (300tdi / 226k miles) ? My first thought is that this shouldn't happen, as the sump shouldn't be pressurised? If it is happening, what might be behind it? Anything in particular to worry about? The oil level is very slightly above the 'full' mark I think. My driveway isn't completely level, so I might need to double check that somewhere else. Thanks Donald Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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25th Nov 2018 8:33pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3327  
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I'm not mechanically minded, so in your case it may be something else, but when this happened to my puma at 75k miles it was blow by and I had to get new engine.
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25th Nov 2018 8:44pm |
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| Grouse Member Since: 16 Apr 2012 Location: on the hill Posts: 521 |
At 226k miles it’s likeky to be blow-by / worn piston rings pressurising the crank case - Diesel engines can run like this for quite a long time but with excessive oil consumption
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25th Nov 2018 8:57pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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Hmmm! Thanks guys - not particularly encouraging I have to say.
I definitely wouldn't say the oil consumption was 'excessive' in any way. It uses oil, but at a rate I'd think was fairly normal for an old engine. At a very, very rough guess, maybe half a litre every couple of months. It's so 'normal' that I haven't thought to monitor it. 'Non functioning breather' - I've not long replaced the cyclone separator with an allisport one, so I'm pretty sure that's working OK. I haven't checked the pipe between rocker cover and sump so that could be suspect. What else am I looking for? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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25th Nov 2018 9:50pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2657 
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Does it chuff out of the oil filler cap if you leave it off with it running?
If it is crankcase pressure then it could just be the head gasket blown to a pushrod hole, so don’t discount the simple things yet. |
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25th Nov 2018 10:26pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1630  
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Check the crank case pressure. Disconnect it from the PCV vent and see if the problem stops. Could be the diaphragm jammed- check the easy things first.
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26th Nov 2018 12:15am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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OK, as always, thanks for the replies.
I can see this is definitely going to be another important step along the LR learning journey….. Left home this morning, heading for Ullapool and the ferry – 60 miles or so. If I hadn’t noticed this issue last night, I wouldn’t have thought there was anything wrong.
When I got to Ullapool, let the oil settle, checked the dipstick, and the oil level is probably a millimetre, or even two, above the full mark. Hard to say exactly because I did an oil/filter change and it’s still reasonably clean/clear, so harder to read off the dipstick. Engine running, filler cap off, and I think I would say it’s ‘chuffing’. Again, hard to be 100% sure as it’s a bit cold up here today. There was ‘steam’ coming out of the filler even with the engine stopped, but coming out with a bit more force with the engine running, so on balance, I think yes, some pressure in there. The head gasket is “relatively” new – maybe this year or last – though that’s obviously no guarantee. I think you have a different definition of “simple”   – but I suppose a new head gasket is still easier than the alternatives.
Quote NickMc: “Check the crank case pressure. Disconnect it from the PCV vent and see if the problem stops. Could be the diaphragm jammed- check the easy things first.” Thanks Nick, assuming I know nothing, what’s the PCV and where is the diaphragm? Thinking about it, this could have been happening for a while. I had noticed oil spotting on my coolant and air inlet hoses, but not figured out why. Now I’m wondering if at some stage, the dipstick has been ‘popped up’ by the pressure in the sump, but it hasn’t done that again…. I guess this would also be bad for other engine seals, not designed to work at such pressures. This could presumably explain why there’s a lot of oil around the engine more generally? IF it’s blow-by, is that an engine out job, or could the ring be changed in-situ? Ta. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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26th Nov 2018 9:48am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2657
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If you’re able, a video of it running with the oil filler cap of would be useful. They all ‘chuff’ to some extent however it shouldn’t be like a steam train.
A blocked breather valve thingy (PCV) is a good shout. It’s the black canister type thing on the side of the head with hoses coming off it. I believe they can be rinsed out with paraffin or similar to clean them out, there’s a diaphragm in there to operate it. Head gasket is certainly simpler than doing the rings! On a 300Tdi the pistons can be taken out the top of the block with the engine in the vehicle. |
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26th Nov 2018 7:39pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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Cheers Retro,
I'll try and manage a video tomorrow. I replaced the PCV/separator with one of the allisport ones, only about three or four months ago. I don't think they have a diaphragm, and just work on the cyclonic separation principle, and I'd reckon that's working OK. (I did take the old one apart just for the hell of it, and I can see how that diaphragm would clog up.) I had googled about taking the pistons out on a 300tdi. It would be well outside my comfort zone and experience (and possibly competence too!). Would I be right in thinking that a compression tester should show up which pistons were 'leaking'? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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26th Nov 2018 7:50pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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well... that took a while. I managed the video, but wasn't able to post until now.
Hopefully this will work.... Having since looked at other videos of 300Tdi's with 'blow-by', I have to say it doesn't look like I have much of a problem, if at all, but I'd be very happy to get other opinions on this. My sump has one of those 'drain taps' fitted, so I'm going to go for a short run later to warm up the engine, then I'll drain out half a litre of oil, to be sure it's below the full line, and see what the situation is then. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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30th Nov 2018 10:15am |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2248 
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Have you disconnected the rocker cover breather from the inlet, perhaps into a catch can ? Some Tdis seem to not like not having positive crankcase ventilation resulting in over pressure in the crankcase. Usually the crank seals leak along with oil being forced out of the dipstick tube.
Just a thought Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. 50 Shades of Pennine Grey |
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30th Nov 2018 11:09am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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Hi Mo,
Haven't done that. As I say, it's a new breather fitted, so I'm hoping/assuming that's OK. I have considered a 'catch can' previously, but that was more to do with monitoring how much oil was being drawn through into the turbo inlet. At this stage my next thing is probably that I've over-filled it a bit when doing the oil change, so I'll correct that and see how we go. It would be good if there was some way to definitely measure crankcase pressure. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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30th Nov 2018 11:14am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2657
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I've never run a 300Tdi so can't say if that is normal or not for that engine, but it certainly seems to chuff a bit more than my 200Tdi does.
A compression test would help to show if there is a problem with the internals of the engine. |
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30th Nov 2018 11:44am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848
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So, just because I'd bought them before, I replaced all the 'breather' hoses - the two at the cyclone and the one that goes direct from the sump to the rocker cover. That said, on examination there wasn't really anything wrong with the originals - not collapsed, or blocked.
I did take about 500ml of oil out of it though, and it's now just below the dipstick full mark. Can't really say if it's spitting any more or not. While I was draining that oil out I noticed that my sump is rusty, and probably leaking. It's entirely possible this is the original 24 year old sump... and the rest of the engine is just manky with oil. At the risk of hi-jacking my own thread.... I've started to wonder again about whether it's time to have the engine lifted out and refurbed. It's had the head off twice for blown gaskets - but over 17 years in my ownership, I don't suppose that's too bad; there have been things like a water pump; PAS pump; fuel lift pump; possibly a vacuum pump - but the engine itself is untouched. I don't think I've been too hard on it at all - regularly serviced; not raced about the place; a good mix of long and short runs - but I think I'm maybe getting to the point where my peace of mind needs the engine to be 'sorted'. If it was a weekend toy, then it maybe wouldn't matter - or I'd take it off the road and work on it myself while learning more about engines. As it is, it's my daily car, and I do need it to stay as reliable as it's been for the last 17 years. There seems to be a pretty good machine shop locally. They reckon about £2500 (very rough estimate) to strip it down and rebuild - rebore, new pistons, grind the crank etc etc. Sounds a lot, but I'd know it was my own, original engine going back in. I'd also need to factor in the cost of getting my indy garage to lift it out and forklift it 50 yrds along the road to the machine shop.... It's a tough one because it could keep going for years as it is, or dump its oil and grind to a halt in the middle of a long run to somewhere important. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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1st Dec 2018 7:24pm |
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