 | Home > Wheels & Tyres > Defender Winter Tyres or AT? |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5858   
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I suppose the answer boils down to budget versus expected usage. I (and the rest of the French Alps) HAVE to go to work when it’s snowing. No ‘only travel if urgent’ nonsense here. KO2s have worked admirably, Cooper STMaxx less so. But if you’re on hols and don’t have to go out in the snow (choose to stay in, walk to wherever you need to go, go skiing, leave for home early to miss a big dump etc) then a mixed use tyre such as the KO2s with snowflake, should suffice. They’re more than good enough for most conditions bar the worst ice or packed/iced snow roads. But in deep snow or on tarmac that’s cleared, more than good enough. So if you’re not forced to use the tyre when it is working at the extreme limits of usage, why go to the trouble of buying two of everything to change them for just a week’s hols? FYI, last year, when we had the most snow in a generation, I could count on one hand the number of days when the snow was heavy enough to be troublesome and whatsmore, lasted more than a day. None came without warning, so sensible decisions to void it could always be taken. 4-5 days in a total of 150+ days of a winter season. Plus it’s worth remembering that the local authorities are much, much better here at clearing snow. MUCH better. Besides, El Niño has been announced this year, which normally means no snow, so slicks will probably be better
 Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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14th Sep 2018 2:02pm |
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| camelman Member Since: 27 Feb 2013 Location: Peak District Posts: 3382 
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I know I've posted it before but the KO2s loved the drifts last winter
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14th Sep 2018 2:59pm |
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| Inigo Member Since: 13 Nov 2011 Location: Kent Posts: 617 
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I thought my General Grabber AT2s would be OK, as they had the mountain snowflake symbol and were bought to save me having to store a spare set of tyres, although they have been on for about 3 years now. I had a slightly scary pirouette when venturing out in fresh snow on top of compacted snow earlier this year, but didn't hit anything. I chose to use snow chains the next day.
Click image to enlarge Normally, I have found that the French mountain roads are cleared within hours of any snow falling, but it did snow a lot this year. |
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14th Sep 2018 9:36pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5858
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Generally everyone here goes slimmer rather than wider, the thought process being that you have a smaller contact patch that needs to grip to the cold tarmac, ice or snow. You’re asking less work of the tyre than if it was nice and fat. Having said that, I would assume, much like mud, that a big fat tyre on a 4x4 in deep snow would be better. But for the road, for a full season where you might get a little bit of ‘everything’ thrown at you, narrower is the way to go.  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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15th Sep 2018 5:22am |
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| rockster57 Member Since: 15 Nov 2014 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 937 
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Thank you for your advice Monsieur Grenadier.
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15th Sep 2018 6:42am |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 628  
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I think, that with our cars it is time to look only for exteremes. Deep snow - not a big problem, you can get stuck, but there is very small chance to be surprised by unexpected deep snow. Compacted snow or ice - much bigger problem, you can destroy your car or another car, and kill someone. And you can be surprised to find this condition in next crossing or behind next curve, or you can found there another car, and not be able to stop yours.
This is why I have proper winter tires, for case of bad surprise ahead. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo |
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15th Sep 2018 8:49am |
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| Fat Cog Member Since: 19 Mar 2012 Location: Oxfordshire & Devon Posts: 502 
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Lot of really very unnecessary conundrums being floated about winter & summer tyres...these are bog standard Conti's (as fitted to my 2016 Defender) during last years snow. Sun, rain, snow, mud...throw it all at most modern 4x4 tyres & you'll be just dandy. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Since 1973...S1, Air Portable's, Defender's, but only my Wolf TUL HS GS remains |
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15th Sep 2018 1:13pm |
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| Green Machine Member Since: 19 Nov 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1226 
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Any AT tyre will perform pretty well in fresh, deep, powdery snow (as a lot of the pics here). Because there's loads of traction available with this type of snow. The powdery snow sticks to itself, and gets trapped into the tread blocks of the tyre. Think about how easy it is to compress powdery snow into a snow ball and how well it sticks together.
The real challenge comes on compacted snow and ice (as others have said). No AT tyre is going to perform anywhere near as well as a genuine winter tyre in these conditions. The design of the tyre and the compounds that they are made from are totally different. I run 265 wide BFG AT KO (the original design) on my 90 year round, mainly because I like the look of them (which I readily admit is a terrible reason to choose a tyre). They are great in loose, powdery, deep snow - and really NOT that great on compacted snow and ice. The 265 width doesn't help here, but it is mainly the fact that they have no sipes in the tread blocks and are made out of a pretty hard compound. They have no ability to find traction on an icy surface because they weren't designed for it. On my other car (Golf Gti) I now run two sets of wheels. One with Michelin performance summer tyres from March to October, one with dedicated Continental winter tyres from October to March. The winter tyres were fitted for the first time last year and were a revelation. OK, a performance summer tyre is way worse than an AT in winter conditions, but the winter tyres perform so much better. The grip that they can achieve on compacted snow and icy conditions is quite surprising, and you notice this under braking more than anywhere else. Only you can decide if it is worthwhile for you to run two sets of wheels (or have the hassle of swapping tyres on one set of wheels), but there can be no doubt that a dedicated winter tyre is significantly better in winter conditions than any non-winter tyre. This seems like stating the obvious, but the number of people who go round suggesting there is little to no difference is amazing (and usually they have never driven on a dedicated winter tyre). No AT tyre, snowflake marked or not, will come close to the performance of a dedicated winter tyre during heavy braking / steering inputs on compacted snow and ice. There were several times last winter when I took the Golf over the Defender because of the icy conditions and I knew from experiencing both that the Golf on its winter tyres would be safer than the Defender on its AT's. 2005 Td5 | 90 Station Wagon | Tonga Green |
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15th Sep 2018 1:42pm |
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| JimboSails Member Since: 14 Sep 2015 Location: Hampshire Posts: 144
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Thanks for all this input.
What are the implications of buying a WINTER all terrain tyre, and using it year round? Does it just wear faster? |
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15th Sep 2018 7:33pm |
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| plumpmoose Member Since: 14 Dec 2015 Location: North Devon & Oxon Posts: 114
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Most tyres are OK in fresh snow for basic movement, but add speed, cornering, hills etc then things become interesting.
The rubber compounds and structure of ATs and WT are very different and there is very little overlap. AT are designed to move vehicle over tough hard terrain (stoney paths etc), so the blocks of rubber need to be quite 'stiff'. This includes the tyre base and sidewalls. WT want to be like octopus tentacles - molding to the surface to stick to it. The tread (or sipes as they are called) can easily be moved by your finger. The side wall and tyre base are also much more flexible. Over 10 years ago I was caught out in wifes Volvo SUV using AT in the snow. Slid off a very slow corner. Since then we always have a car with WT from October to April and it makes a big difference. In wet, slippery, frost, snow and ice the car is transformed, but one must never be complacent. Also cabin noise is lower as tyre is 'softer'. I do not find the tyres wear any quicker and this year we left WT on all year (during the hottest summer for years) and things are fine with them. I leave ATs on LRD all year - and tend not to use it when very snowy. After a day of snow and ice the salt is being pushed into all sort of sensitive areas of the car, which are well known for rusting! |
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25th Sep 2018 8:36am |
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| ppad Member Since: 16 Nov 2012 Location: now, UK S Coast Posts: 223 
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I also live in Hampshire .. last winter my BFG AT 235's were not happy - or rather I was not happy. Maybe 8mm of tread left, but more to the point is the conditions, here I don't get snowdrifts, I get slush and ice and hard packed snow.
Hard rubber tyres with 'AT' tread just are not the best in these conditions and it is real easy to slide off the road round here. So I am very strongly inclining to a winter set, looked up the mytres (Anyone used this web site?) and they'll do a set for 230 quid. I think winter tyres are well designed for exactly those conditions, and I like to get out and about to enjoy the conditions. Click image to enlarge Sold the much modified 110 2.8, in Oz Brought the 90 home from Switzerland ... |
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28th Sep 2018 10:41am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17475 
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Turning the question round the other way, which winter tyres also provide acceptable off-road performance?
Almost all the winter tyres I have seen discussed here are undoubtedly great on snowy and icy roads, but I suspect are pretty hopeless off-road (although I suppose if the ground is so hard frozen that it is icy they are probably OK). Are there any tyres with good icy road performance that also cut the mustard in UK muddy off-road conditions? |
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28th Sep 2018 2:21pm |
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| Mike_E Member Since: 13 Apr 2017 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 161 
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I'm trying to solve the same issue myself...
In the states they seem to swear by Goodyear duratrac as being the best agressive AT in snow. I had them on a Ford ranger... were good in snow and slush...ok on compacted snow. Not as good as full winters on the golf on icy roads but felt more stable everywhere else. Agressive pattern for mud. Downside is 265/75 only. I also found Cooper AT3 4S.... winter optimised AT... not that aggressive so probably ropey in mud but ought to be great in snow and ice. 265/75 only again.... Nokia rotiiva at... look like a good tyre for snow... not very agressive though for mud. Boils down to big lugs and open tread for mud make a poor snow tyre. If I could get at3 4s in a 235/85 I'd be sold! Mike |
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2nd Oct 2018 2:36pm |
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| treps Member Since: 07 Jul 2015 Location: SE Posts: 244 |
I drive from UK to Pyrenees on average twice a month in my 110 Adventure with a bit of offroad on arrival. The original tires are fine during the year but in deep snow or ice on a significant up or down slope they are not. I followed advice on this forum and got a spare set of steel wheels with Nokian Hakkapeiitta LT2, staying thin with 235s. These are brilliant. I change the wheels in late December to end March. Wear is totally manageable.
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5th Oct 2018 10:00pm |
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