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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 716  
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Everyone could always tow, but post 1997 licences (so quite a while now) had overly complex and stupid EU regs. It essentially said if you picked a crap tow vehicle you could tow, if you picked a good tow vehicle you basically could tow almost nothing. e.g. If you had say a Ford Focus, you could before the law change, legally towed a caravan no problem with it. But if you had a Range Rover or a traditional 90 you couldn't. A 90 would have been restricted to towing only 750kg... But the Focus would probably be allowed to tow 1200kg+ It was all to do with the combined MAM of vehicle + trailer, no logical sense. But there where 2 or 3 different regulation sets over the years, so you had drivers of varying ages all with different towing eligibility. Thankfully Brexit helped get rid of this utter nonsense so that it makes it a level playing field that is clear and easy to understand. Without any real world increase in risk to anyone. |
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15th Jul 2023 7:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359 
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I can find absolutely no evidence of this at all, the only change seems to be the cessation of the requirement for a separate trailer test. As far as I can see, a cat B licence still limits you to 3500kg MAM. Pre-'97 licence holders automatically have C1E, post-'97 baby-boomers so not. |
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15th Jul 2023 7:35pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646 
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When my daughter got her 300 tdi 90 about 4 years ago she did a separate trailer test. U.K. licence 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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15th Jul 2023 7:56pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 716
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But the test was only to tow certain combos, not that she couldn't tow at all. If for example she had a Freelander 1, she could have towed up to 1400kg's, so a pretty big caravan or even a small car transporter with a sports car on the back.
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15th Jul 2023 8:09pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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Prior to 16/12/2021 the situation was complex, the text below is taken from the Government's page on the subject at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-...utumn-2021
a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total) a trailer over 750kg MAM, as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (up to 3,500kg in total) You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier. Licences issued from 19 January 2013 If you passed your car driving test from 19 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following: a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total) a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier. What changed on 16 December 2021 If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997, you’re now allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM. However none of this has the slightest bearing on your eligibility to drive a vehicle which has a MAM in excess of 3500kg. For that you need Cat C1 or C, just as before. |
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15th Jul 2023 9:53pm |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1040  
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How does to marry up with the limitation of 3500kg applicable to most normal driver license holders? |
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15th Jul 2023 10:28pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206 
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I think it’s a trial period at the minute, a B license holder can drive an EV van up to 4250kg, subject to receiving 5 hours training. There’s no test to pass. No need for tacho or o-license etc. I don’t know what the score is with speed limits. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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15th Jul 2023 11:51pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 716
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I’ve read about that thing for EV’s in the past. Isn’t it limited to commercial vehicles and for very specific uses plus some other restrictions. Don’t think it is of any help for the vast majority of vehicles or drivers in the U.K.
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16th Jul 2023 9:59am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206
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It is only for commercials and is only a temporary derogation for now, although they are consulting on making it permanent and removing the need for 5 hours training. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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16th Jul 2023 2:23pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206
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For towing it used to be 3500kg max train weight ( combination weight) if you didn’t have +E on your licence. Now it’s 3500kg trailer MAM which means in theory a 7000kg max train weight with right vehicle and trailer combo. Pre-97 is still 8250kg max train weight, so still a slight advantage, but nothing like the difference there was before. It is not well worded, as they switch between trailer MAM and combination MAM, but it’s all on Gov.uk The current consultation to consider returning to having C1 entitlement automatically is here https://www.gov.uk/government/consultation...ntitlement It is still consultation, so not a done deal yet as my earlier post might have implied  2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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16th Jul 2023 2:28pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646
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From the latest email regarding tests inside the Arctic circle
"The Grenadier Quartermaster. Our new double cab pick-up made its world debut at Goodwood Festival of Speed last week. It’s our seriously capable off-roader, with extended loadspace. So you can carry up to five adults in comfort, and even the most awkward loads, to remote destinations." https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/ie/the-vehic...evelopment 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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17th Jul 2023 2:02pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 716
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Knew there was another point, stumbled across it yesterday while looking for something else. It isn't commercial, it is for the transport of goods. I assume running empty having dropped or on your way to collect is permissible. But not general running about or a vehicle that isn't for transporting goods. Which probably rules out a general purpose pickup. |
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17th Jul 2023 3:13pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206
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At the risk of going event further off-topic... I think there's a definition somewhere of what constitutes a vehicle adapted for the carriage of goods, which presumably is what they are getting at. In the Road Traffic Act it says: “goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted,
Pretty vague and one that would probably require lawyers in a courtroom to sort out. I think HMRC came up with a different definition when deciding on the tax status of VW transporters with 2nd row seats. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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17th Jul 2023 3:19pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 716
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To keep vaguely on-topic. Trial period or not, I can't see it being of any help in allowing something like the Quartermaster to have a 1 tonne payload in the UK/EU.
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17th Jul 2023 3:21pm |
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