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Co1

Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3681

Not super clear from those pics, but it looks like mig.

15th Aug 2022 6:04pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17444

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

trevorg wrote:
Picked up on this thread, and unsure about the niceties of welding, so had a look under my 2012 90. There is a weld to each but with a single standing seam. Should I be worried?
...

There is no easy way to say this, but yes, you should be worried, that is a 2012 MIG-welded axle but since it is a 90 you won't have had the recall.

I strongly suggest getting hold of and fitting a pair of the reinforcing brackets LR068818 (LH bracket) and LR068822 (RH bracket), these won't stop the weld failing but will stop the end coming right off the axle and should allow you to stop with some measure of control.

If you haven't already done so, have a look at this thread.

15th Aug 2022 6:35pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1428

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

blackwolf wrote:
Payney1000 wrote:
... This photo shows Mig welded to the left of the bracket.

I would have hoped that the obvious flaw in the weld indicated below, complete with rust, would have rejected this axle during build. The near criminal negligence of all this makes me very angry.

Click image to enlarge

That spot in the centre of the weld pool is silicon. It is the last spot to solidify, the silicon rises to the surface and forms a glass like bead in the centre of the weld pool at the end of each weld. As such, it's virtually impossible for a cathodic paint process to cover the silicon.
Almost every mig welded automotive component will show this to some extent. The spot in the picture above is actually very small in my experience and would not be classed as a weld defect.

I would certainly agree that Payney's pictures from the crash are truly shocking. It's a wonder that nobody has been killed yet, so far as we know.

15th Aug 2022 6:38pm

trevorg

Member Since: 28 May 2022
Location: Aisne
Posts: 51

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver

Blackwolf, thank you……just need to source them now and get them fitted.

15th Aug 2022 7:04pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3424

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Was almost a year ago when I was searching for the brackets. One side, cant recall which, was very hard to source. For me I figured that it is cheaper to replace the axle case, so abandoned the brackets. Keep in mind that installing the brackets do not prevent the hub from parting the axle.. so you might still have to replace the axle case eventually. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

15th Aug 2022 7:29pm

Payney1000

Member Since: 16 Feb 2022
Location: Brittany
Posts: 24

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

blackwolf wrote:
Yes, the "what ifs" don't bear thinking about - a school party on push bikes in the wrong place at the wrong time, for example, although I don't suppose that JLR would be allowed to ignore the problem if that had been the case.

I am amused by the writing in the dirt on your rear left side panel, something of an understatement, I think!

Blackwolf The writing on the side was me lol, wet cold sore pitch dark waiting 2 hours for a recovery truck !!! Its all what came to mind at the time.

15th Aug 2022 7:30pm

trevorg

Member Since: 28 May 2022
Location: Aisne
Posts: 51

Managed to source (the last) pair from The Netherlands and they will be delivered this week. Just need to get the car booked into my local concessionaire and get them fitted. Without this forum I would have never known of this problem, chapeau to you all.

Grumpy old man moan….if you don’t have items in stock and don’t know when they are likely to be in stock, then don’t show them on your website as available. Nuff said!

16th Aug 2022 1:59pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17444

The situation really just keeps getting worse. Based on the Payney1000's insider information, not only did Landrover continue to build and supply defective vehicles after discovering a very dangerous flaw, it then failed to have an effective recall regime (90's not recalled), and deceived the regulators about the number of vehicles which were attended to under the recall regime (only 10% of the vehicles recalled were attended to).

Now we find that there is a world shortage of the reinforcing brackets required under the recall, which is also puzzling given that only 10% of the recalled vehicles have been to a dealer. The vast majority of vehicles recalled (i.e., those on which the axle hadn't actually cracked) would have had the brackets fitted, so if only 10% of vehicles have actually been recalled successfully one would perhaps expect that 90% of the total number of brackets made are sitting on shelves somewhere.

Whether or not that is a valid assumption, the fact that this is a safety-critical part needed for many vehicles and the fact that it is now unobtainable raises further concerns.

If my axle had failed and I had been given the same insider information, I think I would be banging out letters to MPs, newspapers, and the DVSA Enforcement section like there is no tomorrow.

I am still amazed that, as far as we know, no deaths have resulted from failing front axles.

(Edited for spelling)

Last edited by blackwolf on 17th Aug 2022 12:45pm. Edited 1 time in total

17th Aug 2022 10:47am

Payney1000

Member Since: 16 Feb 2022
Location: Brittany
Posts: 24

Blackwolf I agree with what you say fully.

I have been battling this for over 6 mths. I said right from the start regardless of my injuries' and my vehicle being written off. The first priority was to re look at the re-call ASAP.

I pass Puma defenders over here in France and wonder if the owner is aware of the danger this can cause. Its frightening to think what could have possibly happened. Not only that I am positive their is accidents that the owner could have been seriously hurt or life changing or worse and this was the cause but due to its location you could also think it snapped hitting a barrier etc.

The point at the end is Landrover have knowing about the danger of this for years. Did a bit of a cover up to hide it. Remember we are talking about the same time frame for the development of the new defender. Landrover would not want a recall for a massive safety problem on the "Defender" because whatever bad press etc this would follow the new version just because of the name. This would reduce pre sales orders for the new defender.
Landrover should be held accountable for there actions. No manufacture should sell a vehicle that can cause someone to loss there life by no fault of there owner.
Not only that the Modification seems to be in limited supply now, only makes me think that 1, they did not fit them all which we know they only did 10% 2, You will find that a lot of worried owners which may have the fiction weld axles fitted have doubled up to be safe. This highlights the miss information from landrover and the lack of care to make sure every owner is fully informed.
I am sure if landrover sent a letter to us all saying ( We only did 10% recall on the axles fitted to your vehicle if you see any problems get back to us ) I am sure a lot on here would be at the dealerships kicking off. Plus the lawyers would be making a fortune.

The sad fact is yes I was lucky I am still here but it was close. Someone is going to get killed by this and the older these vehicle get the less impact to landrover because it will get to a point it will be age related answer. Which is

!! If it was not a problem Landrover never go out there way to hand over large amounts of cash because they feel its right !!! No its only to shut you up because they know this is not a small problem and if it gets out fully they will need to spend millions on it and will loss millions for years to come just because of the name "Defender"

17th Aug 2022 11:19am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3424

Does France have strict rules when it comes to accident damage?
I cant see what lies beneath, but would a new bumper, mudguard and a second hand axle (as they are better) put this beauty back on the road?
Or there is more damage?

Payney1000 wrote:

Click image to enlarge

1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

22nd Aug 2022 7:28am

Payney1000

Member Since: 16 Feb 2022
Location: Brittany
Posts: 24

Dinnu The rules regarding accident damage are the same as any EU country.
Regarding the damage there is a lot more damage which is in seen due to the wheel being forced under the vehicle during the crash.
Yes I would like to rebuild it. But until the legal stuff is finished I cannot touch it. So sadly it’s just got to sit there for now.
The insurance company want to write it off but I have not seen any documents or anything from them so I believe they are waiting on Landrover to see what happens.

22nd Aug 2022 11:11am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3424

I hope you get this sorted soon. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

24th Aug 2022 6:12am

Cragster69

Member Since: 15 Jun 2021
Location: Scotland
Posts: 198

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Cairns Blue

This popped up in my news feed, recall issued in Australia.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/land...r-recalled Craig.

“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln

www.scotgrc.co.uk

24th Aug 2022 6:03pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3424

Damn interesting... they are recalling SALLDW***** where W is a 90 Heavy Duty. My CSW is also with a W.

Landrover UK never recalled 90s? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

24th Aug 2022 6:28pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1081

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Interesting, indeed. Could this constitute a precedence?! In the sense of "yes, we admit that the earlier recall didn't cover ALL cars"?

The provided VIN list shows 110s, 130s and 90s as of Sep 2012 (early MY 2013), all Fuji White it seems.

Makes you think whether one or more Australians took the hush money?

24th Aug 2022 6:41pm

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