 | Home > Td5 > Engine tuning advice? |
 
|
|
|
| BCdefender Member Since: 26 Oct 2015 Location: Nanaimo Posts: 211   
|
Sorry ahead of time if this has already been asked. I just haven't been able to find a comprehensive thread....
Now that I've added a cage and carry more passengers in my 1999 TD5 Defender SW I've found the need for more power. Does any one have any knowledge they want to share about options regarding remapping, turbo upgrade, need for a new intercooler and usefulness/type of exhaust upgrade? Advice of any part of the above would be greatly appreciated. I'm out here in Vancouver so there is very little extensive knowledge shared among enthusiasts about how to get it all done (although we do have the premier rebuilder/defender shop in North America called - Rovalution- visit if you are ever in North Van) I will be shipping everything in once I can get a comprehensive parts list together. Thanks a lot!  1999 Defender 110
2003 P38 2007 RR SC "And that's why it needs to be celebrated, because when the Defender goes we'll have lost this pointer to where we came from, and we're really going to miss it." My build thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47750.html Last edited by BCdefender on 25th Feb 2017 3:09pm. Edited 1 time in total |
||
25th Feb 2017 1:22am |
|
| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2168 
|
Depends on what you want out of it really!
First thing is you have the older ECU so either has to be swapped for a new one or have a chip soldered on. Map alone will give 150 - 170bhp. Will cost anywhere from £250 (Dynachip/Td5inside) to £500 (BAS/Alive). Intercoolers - Depends on price the Britpart (rebranded serck) unit is the cheapest and will do the job. Ive got an Allisport LIFT IC, lifetiem warrenty and expertly built but £550 or so but well worth it imo. Youll need silicone hoses too, Terrafirma do decent ones for about £80 though I have Allisport ones. As for turbos TD5inside (Facebook) do a well priced hybrid turbo, which is a standard Garret unit with uprated internals which give more power low down and spools up much faster. Or you can go VNT which is an all round bigger turbo but more expensive. Exhaust not sure on the laws in Canada but a Decat pipe and straight thru plus EGR blank (if fitted). If you dont want a full straight thru Allisport do a "bullet" midbox basically a free flowing midbox. You should be fine on the standard manifold as well, mine have never warped. As for boost you can run about 18 - 19psi (14psi is standard) without triggering limp mode/overboost. Any higher and youll need a boost box (not ideal but does the job) or an uprated MAP sensor (best choice (Alive/TD5inside) to allow the higher boost. With a hybrid 22psi is best, VNT 26psi Airflow - Pull your air box off and remove the intake pipe. Youll see a "propeller" or sorts, remove this and the air flow is much less restricted! You should be fine with standard paper air filters. Ive got a Pipercross one fitted but if i go anyhwere sandy or dusty I change back to standard. Everything is pretty easy to fit yourself, bar the mapping of course! Fullsize IC, hybrid turbo, suitable map and correct boost should give around 190bhp and 450nm torque. I wouldnt reccomend tuning any higher than this with yours being a '99 10p engine. Still good engines but not as strong as the later 15p TD5s. At that level you shouldnt need to upgrade anything else either, the clutch should take the power but will wear slightly faster, gearbox and TX box (Gigglepin have run 650 hp through a near std TX box!) should also be fine. Hope that helps! |
||
|
25th Feb 2017 10:51am |
|
| Fabio Member Since: 05 Aug 2011 Location: Somerset Posts: 589  
|
Mine was remapped two and a half years ago and is more then enough for me.
On a TD5 you will get more power from a standard remap. I've travelled to 11 countries with trailer tent, 4 bikes and camping equipment for 2 weeks and the power is more then enough. My remap was done by TD5inside and they are very good. Fabio |
||
|
25th Feb 2017 6:36pm |
|
| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2777 
|
My 2005 TD5 was remapped by Dynachip.
lt's not the full power remap because he had to turn it down due to excessive smoke from the exhaust. However it's still much better than standard, it pulls better from 1500rpm and it's now possible to safely overtake if needed. Going up hills in fifth gear is better, there's a hill round here that a standard TD5 will manage about 50mph flat out in fifth....mine will now exceed 60mph. So it's nicer to drive as you don't need to change gear so much. The Defender is otherwise standard. It was better with the CAT removed but was too noisy (droning at higher speeds) However the 1999 TD5 is not fitted with a CAT, well not in the UK specification anyway. Without the CAT the turbo spooled up faster and the engine was more responsive. I also removed the EGR valve after reading about the advantages but it made no noticeable difference. But my EGR valve was still working. Removing a faulty or blocked/stuck one would make a bigger difference. |
||
|
27th Feb 2017 7:46am |
|
| huffhuff Member Since: 05 May 2016 Location: Home Counties Posts: 379 
|
As above really.
I started with a standard 'Stage 1' remap from Mike at Dynachip. I also fitted a SS decat pipe and blanked the EGR. This was a transformation. Great pull through all gears at nearly all the rev range. Like lightening above, it was more than enough to overtake comfortably and going up hills a dream. Less gear changes overall. This added about 40ish BHP to the standard 122 (mine is a 2001 TD5 90) and I was getting about 26 MPG. Mine is an MSB ECU so needed a chip soldered. The NNN models can be reprogrammed without this. Over the last few months i've been upgrading bits as and when they break. So new alisport intercooler, silicone hoses, new MAF, did the airbox trick above, boost box to stop limp mode and tweaked Stage 2 remap from TD5inside. Again, transformation is great. Although this only adds another 20ish BHP, it pulls easier and generally smoother all around. At the moment i'm still playing a bit, so the MPG is down to about 23.5. I've not uprated the manifold or studs, everything else is pretty much standard. From all the research I did, the TD5 as standard seems to be a very tuneable engine and you can get so much more out of it (whether it be speed, torque or fuel efficiency). Many reasons why it didn't roll out the factory like it. It's a global workhorse so had to work with varying quality of fuel, different climates and environment plus having to tick the emissions box. TD5 Defender 90 Discovery 3 HSE |
||
|
27th Feb 2017 2:21pm |
|
| BCdefender Member Since: 26 Oct 2015 Location: Nanaimo Posts: 211
|
Thanks a lot for all the input. I think I'm going to start with a stage 1 remap once we've figured out how to do that here and go from there. The next question is which remap as there seems to be a wide price difference between the different companies! 1999 Defender 110
2003 P38 2007 RR SC "And that's why it needs to be celebrated, because when the Defender goes we'll have lost this pointer to where we came from, and we're really going to miss it." My build thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47750.html |
||
|
27th Feb 2017 11:01pm |
|
| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
|
As you have a old style ECU you could also think about a tuningbox.
I know there is a big thing against tuning boxes here but like there are bad tuning files there are also good tuning boxes. You can talk a lot about tuning, but the only way to get more HP and Torque out off your engine is by putting more fuel in it. Most (I don't say all but most) tuning files just increase the amount off fuel depending on the trhottle position based on the standard map. The better ones change the fuel delivery based on more parameters. But then you probably talking about the tunes from specialist Land Rover tuners. Not the ones that do BMW's too. 
There are decent tuning boxes that also increase the fuel delivery by keeping the injectors open longer, not just by faking fuel pressures or something like that. I have a PSI powerbox and I like it. It increases the fuel delivery with a certain % above 1300 rpm and that works fine. As I live in a flat country I don't have big hill to climb on the road and then a standard tune(I think) works fine. I use my powerbox in principle only off-road. That is one off the advantages off a powerbox you can switch it on and off as you like. A short while ago I changed my set-up a little and use a small €6,- piece off Chinese electronics to control my powerbox. The td5 throttle pedal gives a nice voltage signal to the ecu. I used that voltage signal to switch on and off the powerbox. That works very nice now my powerbox works only at full throttle and I get a nice push in the back when I reach full throttle and that is what I want. I am sure you want to know why I did that.  2 reasons as I mentioned before I think my standard is good enough for my normal driving I don't need it to be tuned but I like the power if I want it. So I like it and also for MOT reasons to be switchable. The powerbox has different settings and making it switchable I think I can use the max setting and getting some smoke for the short periods I really use it. The second reason is that normally it switches on at 1300 rpm and off below that. I just happens to be that way that I drive a lot in that rpm range between difficult sections off-road and it is not nice that the powerbox swithches on and off all the time. So now it also switches on at 1300 rpm but only if I am at full throttle so I won't be long in that rpm range. 
I don't say a good powerbox is better than a good tune, I think a very good specific tune made for your personal vehicle is always better than the best powerbox or standard tuning file. A good powerbox will be in the same range as a standard tuning file. So if I would go for a tune I would only take a tune from a Land Rover specific tuning specialist as you will be driving always with the tune so it has to be nice to your engine. But as you have an old style ecu, you could order a new ecu that is already tuned or a tuning box might be an option. I know there will be people saying that I am mad. And yes the could be right as I drive Land Rovers. 
My 90 is technically a 2003 td5 without EGR, Cat and mid silencer, standard intercooler and a little bit more turbo pressure but no boostbox installed yet.  Click image to enlarge And it sounds like this, yes tuning box is on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtvkRCuHmKM Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
||
|
28th Feb 2017 7:56am |
|
| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2168
|
While you are right a tuning box does just inject more fuel. That isnt good as nothing else is adjusted to compensate for the extra fuel which in the worst case can lead to melted pistons. Not to mention a tuning box will not account for other modifications that have been installed. At the end of the day all the box is doing is tricking the ECU into dumping more fuel.
A proper map will not only inject more fuel but flow is adjusted, torque curve and be suited to the various mods etc... Speak to Jose at TD5inside (Portugal based and may take time to reply) or Mike at Dynachip (UK based mobile service) both offer excellent bespoke maps tuned to your landy and your style of driving for £250 at your home. TD5inside can also offer dual maps a standard one + more power, or more power + even more power at the flick of a switch. Rolling road maps offered by BAS and Alive are all well and good but whats the point in getting great numbers on the dyno but it drives like a pig on the road? I'm not saying all do but I personally prefer road mapping as everything is tuned and adjust to you. However as you have the old ECU it may be a little more expensive due to the chip needing to be soldered on. |
||
|
28th Feb 2017 11:05am |
|
| Swac3 Member Since: 21 Feb 2015 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 363 |
about a 50 Euro difference between Alive and BAS ? IRB seem to have gone awol, who were you looking at when you found a wide difference ? Bowler motor Sport is well over triple BAS/Alive but is a new ECU in addition to the remap. 3 Landrovers |
||
|
28th Feb 2017 10:02pm |
|
| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2168
|
Wide difference. Dynachip/TD5inside - £250. Alive/BAS £500+ big wide difference
The Bowler map is madness imo, at the end of the day it is a Land Rover not a time attack Skyline or Supra, so spend your money wisely. £1.5k for a map on a landy is not going to give you any major benifit over the above. I can personally recommend Dynachip, Mike remapped my 90 3 years back and it has been nothing but perfect. No smoke, no issues, no rough running, no even as much as a fault code! |
||
|
28th Feb 2017 10:15pm |
|
| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039
|
A proper box like the PSI does not trick the ECU. Please reread my post. And if you do your homework you see that there are plenty off tunes available that do the same. A tune can not adjust the airflow on a defender, as the turbo is not regulated by the ecu just by the amount off exhaust gasses and that comes from the amount off fuel injected. Not the otherway around as you say. The torque comes from Ehhhh oh yes fuel and air. the ECU will not change the crankshaft or piston diameter. While you are right that to much fuel is not good, but that can happen with a box but also with a tune. And you compare a proper tune with a box and you think all the boxes are the same. While I mentioned already that a good box is as good as a standard tune. A tune will not compensate for other things changed on an engine, my box will as I have multiple settings. But then I also said some peolpe think I am mad. Roel
1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
||
|
28th Feb 2017 10:32pm |
|
| miker Member Since: 13 Sep 2015 Location: Surrey Posts: 1763 
|
BAS remap according to their website is £360... Alive is £300... |
||
|
1st Mar 2017 12:42am |
|
| Swac3 Member Since: 21 Feb 2015 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 363 |
As above, about a 50 Euro difference between BAS and Alive circa 300-350 and certainly not £500+ , Not sure where those pricings were found but if we are comparing competitors services its hardly fair claiming a 'wide difference + big wide difference' when that difference has been inflated by around £150 to £200. 3 Landrovers
|
||
|
1st Mar 2017 9:20am |
|
| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2168
|
Stand corrected! Last time I checked they where a a lot more expensive, which was a couple years ago!
Either way I do not like tuning boxes and would never dream of fitting one, there is far too much negative information out there in comparison to a proper map. |
||
|
1st Mar 2017 10:26am |
|
|
|
| All times are GMT |
< Previous Topic | Next Topic > |
Posting Rules
|
Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
