 | Home > Td5 > Valeo or Genuine clutch and flywheel? |
 
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| Landydefender1 Member Since: 13 May 2015 Location: East Yorkshire Posts: 63   
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Do I go for a genuine LR clutch and flywheel or a Valeo?
Cheers |
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31st May 2015 7:33am |
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| bga86 Member Since: 17 Jan 2014 Location: Here and there Posts: 205 
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Valeo is genuine just doesn't have a lr stamp on it. It's all I fit at work, have fitted a LOT of them with no issues
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31st May 2015 5:42pm |
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| excossack Member Since: 22 Feb 2012 Location: North West Posts: 5850 
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This is the one I got (twice)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DEFEN...3a530a7df1 1999 Defender TD5 110 Regards John M0VAZ Econet Station 48 no clock |
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31st May 2015 6:03pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300  
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please enlighten me. we are you replacing the flywheel I'd have thought that would be good for the life of the vehicle?
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31st May 2015 7:41pm |
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| excossack Member Since: 22 Feb 2012 Location: North West Posts: 5850
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I replaced mine, because;
A. The clutch was really heavy so a good time as the box was out B. The car was on 140k when I got the job done so no idea how old the DMF was. 1999 Defender TD5 110 Regards John M0VAZ Econet Station 48 no clock |
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31st May 2015 8:17pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432 
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 A TD5 DMF has a life expectancy fairly similar to a Puma driven plate!
Indeed it was the abject uselessness of the TD5's flywheel that persuaded LR to revert to a solid flywheel on the Puma. Shame they didn't do a better job (though to be fair designing a flywheel/clutch combo for a modern high speed diesel isn't easy). |
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31st May 2015 9:29pm |
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| Landydefender1 Member Since: 13 May 2015 Location: East Yorkshire Posts: 63
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I don't know? I have been advised to change the clutch and flywheel at the same time? |
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31st May 2015 10:56pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300
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forgot they are dual mass - that explains it.
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1st Jun 2015 8:41am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432
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A dual-mass flywheel has two parts, mounted coaxially on precision bearings, with a resilient (spring) coupling between them. When new, there should be sprung rotational movement between the two parts, so that the angular vibration of the crankshaft (which isn't running at a constant speed on a modern high-speed diesel engine) is not passed to the transmission. In effect, the srings in the DMF do exactly the same job as the springs found in the driven plate of a TDCi/Puma clutch, or any other traditional clutch (such as on a Series Landrover).
There are two common problems which kill a DMF. One is that the springs compress and take on a premanent 'set' (ie they become shorter). This will cause clunks and rattles and may lead to clutch judder (and is actually the same problem that kills Puma clutches, although because there is more room for springs in a DMF it doesn't happen quite as quickly as it does on the Puma). The second, and more significant problem, is that wear develops in the bearings between the two parts, so that there is non-axial movement between them (in effect thy become loose and wobbly). This is the DMF-killer, and inevitably leads to judder and driveability issues. It is worth remembering that for obvious (contamination-risk) reasons the bearings are not lubricated so wear is inevitable. Typically a TD5 DMF (Defender or Disco2) will probably need a new DMF after around 100k miles. On the other hand, a Puma/TDCi will probably need a new driven plate after around 50k miles. From the owners' perspective, the introduction of the DMF moves the major wear point from the driven plate (a £50-ish part) to the DMF (a £250+ -ish part) which isn't helpful. The problems which the TD5 DMF introduced are allegedly the reason that LR reverted to a traditional clutch on the TDCi instead of simply using the Transit DMF clutch. Although I flippantly commented above that it is a shame they didn't do a better job, it is worth bearing in mind that the modern high-speed diesel engine does make it very difficult to design a satisfactory flywheel and clutch arrangement. We - the consumer - demand diesels which drive and rev like petrol engines, yet this means that they have to have small and light flywheels. A small and light flywheel is not effective at smoothing out the torsional vibration which a diesel engine inevitably has, so some other form of damping has to be introduced to the driveline, ie the clutch has to be a lot "springier" than a petrol engine's clutch. Then of course we moan when the springs wear and the clutch needs renewing! As noted in the thread above, there are solid flywheel conversions available for the TD5, but they receive very mixed reviews. Many people find them awful because they will result in more noise and vibration in the driveline. Those who can live with this generally find them fine. It should be possible to produce a solid conversion without these problems, but it woudl have to use a driven plate like the Puma/TDCi, with the accelerated wear characteristics that that would bring. Really I think that we have to accept that a TD5 will need a new assembly every 100k miles, and Puma every 50k miles, and accept that that is a fact of life for our chosen vehicle! Edit: This youtube video might be of interest, it shows what tends to happen to a DMF. |
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1st Jun 2015 8:58am |
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| Landydefender1 Member Since: 13 May 2015 Location: East Yorkshire Posts: 63
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Thank you for the information I will be changing both then..... All I need is to find a garage to do it at the best price!
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1st Jun 2015 4:08pm |
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| barbel jim Member Since: 12 Dec 2012 Location: Northants Posts: 1423 
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Make sure they change the spigot bush as well. A £2 part that causes a squeal, and the reason I'm doing mine
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1st Jun 2015 5:46pm |
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| excossack Member Since: 22 Feb 2012 Location: North West Posts: 5850
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Agree with the above. I didnt first time around - 2 months later the squeal appeared and stayed until I replaced the clutch again this time with the spigot. So much better. 1999 Defender TD5 110
Regards John M0VAZ Econet Station 48 no clock |
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1st Jun 2015 9:38pm |
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| Landydefender1 Member Since: 13 May 2015 Location: East Yorkshire Posts: 63
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Does that come with the spigot? |
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6th Jun 2015 4:44am |
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| excossack Member Since: 22 Feb 2012 Location: North West Posts: 5850
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Its that little ring thing at the bottom of the picture (to the right of the release bearing)
From advert: This is a 5 piece TD5 Valeo and clutch kit the kit includes Duel mass flywheel (OE Valeo) Clutch cover OE Clutch plate OE Thrust bearing OE Spigot bearing OE 1999 Defender TD5 110 Regards John M0VAZ Econet Station 48 no clock |
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6th Jun 2015 1:50pm |
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